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Thanos5150 Wrote [to Racho]:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do you think these people had modern boring machines:
> [es.sott.net]
>
> These are made in raised relief which the
> chisel marks, and "modern boring machine" marks,
> conform to, not the other way around.

I see no photo that shows that those figures are raised above the surface plane. Rather, in several photos those figures appear to be engraved below the level of the main face plane. In addition, the linear tool marks around those figures are not nearly as precise and parallel as they are in the surrounding areas of the larger plain surfaces of the walls, columns, and ceilings. This suggests that those figures may have been added after the main excavation that formed the bulk of those caverns.

And so for example, in this video, [www.youtube.com], we see the following:

    -- Marker 12:55 (also see 7:00):
      1. The figures on the right wall are within a field that has been sunken into a concavity below the wall plain to allow the figures to emerge "raised".

      2. column in the center shows a wraparound graphic that's sunken below the plane of the excavation tool marks.

    -- Marker 14:05:Note the left wall figures which are sunken below the wall's face plane.

    -- In this photo: [tinfoilhatlady.files.wordpress.com]
      1. Note the column on the right where the wraparound graphic is sunken below the face plane of the column.

      2. Note on the back wall how the entire field of figures is sunken behind the main tool marks on the wall. It seems clear where the concavitiy begins according to the disruption of the vertical tool marks on the upper aspect of that wall.

    -- Here's a better view: [c2.staticflickr.com]
      The chisel marks associated with the figures are clearly not nearly as straight and precisely parallel as the larger wall excavation marks. I believe that entire field of figures is within a concave recess chiseled into the original wall plane

> This is a modern quarry in Italy. Note the long
> tool marks to the right of the worker:
> [www.artofmaking.ac.uk]

And note the total absence of such tool marks to the left of the worker. It's not obvious that those parallel tool marks are made with a hand held chisel. The worker in the photo isn't working on that section of stone, so how do we know how those striations were created?

Also, unless that worker is ambidextrous, he's of the opposite handedness vs. the worker who made those parallel tool marks on that stone face.


> "At some modern quarries, however, more
> traditional methods of quarrying can still be
> seen. At the peperino tuff quarries near Marino,
> in the Alban Hills south-east of Rome, blocks are
> still extracted with specially-designed long
> versions of the point. The quarryman uses this
> tool to carve narrow separation trenches along the
> side and rear of the desired block.[16] The block
> is then split from the bedrock using numerous
> small flat wedges, or sometimes a bundle of point
> chisels, hammered into the stone along its
> base.[17] The block is then pulled off the quarry
> face with a rope down to a point where it can be
> loaded for transport.[18]"

> Here.

This excerpt is about the separation trench, not about shaping the face of the stone after separation from an adjacent block.


> ...
> Longyou caves:
> [i.imgur.com]
> [interesno.cc]
>
> As said so many time before, clearly demonstrated
> in both pictures and text, these same chisel marks
> are found all over the world wherever stone is
> quarried no different in ancient times than today.

I disagree that this is clear in those photos of the walls, columns, and ceiling of Longyou, unless you know of other citations that more specifically address those particular tool marks. In fact, in Egypt we see those "herringbone" marks which make no sense as hand-chiseled tool marks unless the quarry workers switched between left-handed and right-handed workers on alternating rows. Likewise for this one allegedly from the Roman Empire:


[www.penn.museum]

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 26-Apr-17 15:08 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2729 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 713 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 638 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 635 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 248 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 278 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 544 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 508 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 506 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 458 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 516 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 649 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 715 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 400 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 508 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 461 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 353 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 253 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 258 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 316 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 259 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 325 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 286 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 333 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 303 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 218 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 163 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 222 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 202 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 218 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 203 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 210 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 188 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 438 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 489 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 332 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 384 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 291 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 346 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 342 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 368 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 354 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 287 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 282 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 312 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 339 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 290 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 344 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 375 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 293 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 410 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 340 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 338 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 319 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 293 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 361 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 459 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 463 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 389 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 341 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 374 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 350 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 402 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 378 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 344 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 297 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 412 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 229 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 219 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 320 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 315 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 298 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 357 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 188 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 198 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 296 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 391 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 243 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 361 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 299 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 359 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 277 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 284 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 315 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 247 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 321 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 244 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 318 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 240 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 235 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 223 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 263 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 260 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 515 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 305 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 315 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 382 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 421 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 327 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 326 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 429 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 486 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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