Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Thanos5150 Wrote [to Racho]:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do you think these people had modern boring machines:
> [es.sott.net]
>
> These are made in raised relief which the
> chisel marks, and "modern boring machine" marks,
> conform to, not the other way around.

I see no photo that shows that those figures are raised above the surface plane. Rather, in several photos those figures appear to be engraved below the level of the main face plane. In addition, the linear tool marks around those figures are not nearly as precise and parallel as they are in the surrounding areas of the larger plain surfaces of the walls, columns, and ceilings. This suggests that those figures may have been added after the main excavation that formed the bulk of those caverns.

And so for example, in this video, [www.youtube.com], we see the following:

    -- Marker 12:55 (also see 7:00):
      1. The figures on the right wall are within a field that has been sunken into a concavity below the wall plain to allow the figures to emerge "raised".

      2. column in the center shows a wraparound graphic that's sunken below the plane of the excavation tool marks.

    -- Marker 14:05:Note the left wall figures which are sunken below the wall's face plane.

    -- In this photo: [tinfoilhatlady.files.wordpress.com]
      1. Note the column on the right where the wraparound graphic is sunken below the face plane of the column.

      2. Note on the back wall how the entire field of figures is sunken behind the main tool marks on the wall. It seems clear where the concavitiy begins according to the disruption of the vertical tool marks on the upper aspect of that wall.

    -- Here's a better view: [c2.staticflickr.com]
      The chisel marks associated with the figures are clearly not nearly as straight and precisely parallel as the larger wall excavation marks. I believe that entire field of figures is within a concave recess chiseled into the original wall plane

> This is a modern quarry in Italy. Note the long
> tool marks to the right of the worker:
> [www.artofmaking.ac.uk]

And note the total absence of such tool marks to the left of the worker. It's not obvious that those parallel tool marks are made with a hand held chisel. The worker in the photo isn't working on that section of stone, so how do we know how those striations were created?

Also, unless that worker is ambidextrous, he's of the opposite handedness vs. the worker who made those parallel tool marks on that stone face.


> "At some modern quarries, however, more
> traditional methods of quarrying can still be
> seen. At the peperino tuff quarries near Marino,
> in the Alban Hills south-east of Rome, blocks are
> still extracted with specially-designed long
> versions of the point. The quarryman uses this
> tool to carve narrow separation trenches along the
> side and rear of the desired block.[16] The block
> is then split from the bedrock using numerous
> small flat wedges, or sometimes a bundle of point
> chisels, hammered into the stone along its
> base.[17] The block is then pulled off the quarry
> face with a rope down to a point where it can be
> loaded for transport.[18]"

> Here.

This excerpt is about the separation trench, not about shaping the face of the stone after separation from an adjacent block.


> ...
> Longyou caves:
> [i.imgur.com]
> [interesno.cc]
>
> As said so many time before, clearly demonstrated
> in both pictures and text, these same chisel marks
> are found all over the world wherever stone is
> quarried no different in ancient times than today.

I disagree that this is clear in those photos of the walls, columns, and ceiling of Longyou, unless you know of other citations that more specifically address those particular tool marks. In fact, in Egypt we see those "herringbone" marks which make no sense as hand-chiseled tool marks unless the quarry workers switched between left-handed and right-handed workers on alternating rows. Likewise for this one allegedly from the Roman Empire:


[www.penn.museum]

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 26-Apr-17 15:08 by Origyptian.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2745 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 718 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 649 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 642 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 253 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 283 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 549 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 516 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 513 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 464 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 525 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 658 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 720 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 407 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 517 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 467 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 359 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 258 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 264 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 321 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 264 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 332 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 293 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 341 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 309 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 219 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 169 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 226 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 205 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 220 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 208 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 212 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 192 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 442 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 502 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 339 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 390 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 296 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 353 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 349 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 375 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 368 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 293 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 289 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 318 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 346 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 297 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 413 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 374 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 358 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 319 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 384 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 450 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 345 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 318 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 369 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 466 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 470 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 394 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 349 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 378 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 359 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 405 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 386 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 377 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 337 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 304 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 421 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 233 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 223 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 326 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 320 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 302 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 309 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 369 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 192 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 203 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 302 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 398 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 251 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 310 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 368 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 325 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 251 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 250 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 324 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 246 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 333 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 241 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 232 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 268 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 265 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 521 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 311 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 319 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 390 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 429 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 333 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 333 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 437 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 496 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.