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Thanos5150 Wrote [to Racho]:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do you think these people had modern boring machines:
> [es.sott.net]
>
> These are made in raised relief which the
> chisel marks, and "modern boring machine" marks,
> conform to, not the other way around.

I see no photo that shows that those figures are raised above the surface plane. Rather, in several photos those figures appear to be engraved below the level of the main face plane. In addition, the linear tool marks around those figures are not nearly as precise and parallel as they are in the surrounding areas of the larger plain surfaces of the walls, columns, and ceilings. This suggests that those figures may have been added after the main excavation that formed the bulk of those caverns.

And so for example, in this video, [www.youtube.com], we see the following:

    -- Marker 12:55 (also see 7:00):
      1. The figures on the right wall are within a field that has been sunken into a concavity below the wall plain to allow the figures to emerge "raised".

      2. column in the center shows a wraparound graphic that's sunken below the plane of the excavation tool marks.

    -- Marker 14:05:Note the left wall figures which are sunken below the wall's face plane.

    -- In this photo: [tinfoilhatlady.files.wordpress.com]
      1. Note the column on the right where the wraparound graphic is sunken below the face plane of the column.

      2. Note on the back wall how the entire field of figures is sunken behind the main tool marks on the wall. It seems clear where the concavitiy begins according to the disruption of the vertical tool marks on the upper aspect of that wall.

    -- Here's a better view: [c2.staticflickr.com]
      The chisel marks associated with the figures are clearly not nearly as straight and precisely parallel as the larger wall excavation marks. I believe that entire field of figures is within a concave recess chiseled into the original wall plane

> This is a modern quarry in Italy. Note the long
> tool marks to the right of the worker:
> [www.artofmaking.ac.uk]

And note the total absence of such tool marks to the left of the worker. It's not obvious that those parallel tool marks are made with a hand held chisel. The worker in the photo isn't working on that section of stone, so how do we know how those striations were created?

Also, unless that worker is ambidextrous, he's of the opposite handedness vs. the worker who made those parallel tool marks on that stone face.


> "At some modern quarries, however, more
> traditional methods of quarrying can still be
> seen. At the peperino tuff quarries near Marino,
> in the Alban Hills south-east of Rome, blocks are
> still extracted with specially-designed long
> versions of the point. The quarryman uses this
> tool to carve narrow separation trenches along the
> side and rear of the desired block.[16] The block
> is then split from the bedrock using numerous
> small flat wedges, or sometimes a bundle of point
> chisels, hammered into the stone along its
> base.[17] The block is then pulled off the quarry
> face with a rope down to a point where it can be
> loaded for transport.[18]"

> Here.

This excerpt is about the separation trench, not about shaping the face of the stone after separation from an adjacent block.


> ...
> Longyou caves:
> [i.imgur.com]
> [interesno.cc]
>
> As said so many time before, clearly demonstrated
> in both pictures and text, these same chisel marks
> are found all over the world wherever stone is
> quarried no different in ancient times than today.

I disagree that this is clear in those photos of the walls, columns, and ceiling of Longyou, unless you know of other citations that more specifically address those particular tool marks. In fact, in Egypt we see those "herringbone" marks which make no sense as hand-chiseled tool marks unless the quarry workers switched between left-handed and right-handed workers on alternating rows. Likewise for this one allegedly from the Roman Empire:


[www.penn.museum]

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 26-Apr-17 15:08 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2713 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 706 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 631 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 630 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 240 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 272 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 538 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 500 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 501 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 450 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 508 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 634 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 710 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 501 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 456 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 347 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 244 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 252 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 306 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 255 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 317 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 278 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 329 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 300 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 211 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 161 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 218 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 198 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 214 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 200 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 205 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 185 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 423 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 483 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 328 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 380 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 286 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 343 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 338 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 364 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 349 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 282 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 276 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 306 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 333 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 284 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 294 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 348 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 315 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 438 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 290 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 399 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 405 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 289 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 355 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 453 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 456 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 382 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 334 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 368 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 340 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 397 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 368 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 391 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 292 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 290 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 408 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 219 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 357 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 215 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 314 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 310 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 300 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 349 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 186 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 194 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 290 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 389 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 233 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 301 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 290 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 357 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 272 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 278 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 312 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 244 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 316 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 237 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 316 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 231 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 297 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 322 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 225 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 291 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 255 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 254 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 506 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 296 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 307 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 377 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 411 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 325 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 321 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 420 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 479 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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