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Thanos5150 Wrote [to Racho]:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do you think these people had modern boring machines:
> [es.sott.net]
>
> These are made in raised relief which the
> chisel marks, and "modern boring machine" marks,
> conform to, not the other way around.

I see no photo that shows that those figures are raised above the surface plane. Rather, in several photos those figures appear to be engraved below the level of the main face plane. In addition, the linear tool marks around those figures are not nearly as precise and parallel as they are in the surrounding areas of the larger plain surfaces of the walls, columns, and ceilings. This suggests that those figures may have been added after the main excavation that formed the bulk of those caverns.

And so for example, in this video, [www.youtube.com], we see the following:

    -- Marker 12:55 (also see 7:00):
      1. The figures on the right wall are within a field that has been sunken into a concavity below the wall plain to allow the figures to emerge "raised".

      2. column in the center shows a wraparound graphic that's sunken below the plane of the excavation tool marks.

    -- Marker 14:05:Note the left wall figures which are sunken below the wall's face plane.

    -- In this photo: [tinfoilhatlady.files.wordpress.com]
      1. Note the column on the right where the wraparound graphic is sunken below the face plane of the column.

      2. Note on the back wall how the entire field of figures is sunken behind the main tool marks on the wall. It seems clear where the concavitiy begins according to the disruption of the vertical tool marks on the upper aspect of that wall.

    -- Here's a better view: [c2.staticflickr.com]
      The chisel marks associated with the figures are clearly not nearly as straight and precisely parallel as the larger wall excavation marks. I believe that entire field of figures is within a concave recess chiseled into the original wall plane

> This is a modern quarry in Italy. Note the long
> tool marks to the right of the worker:
> [www.artofmaking.ac.uk]

And note the total absence of such tool marks to the left of the worker. It's not obvious that those parallel tool marks are made with a hand held chisel. The worker in the photo isn't working on that section of stone, so how do we know how those striations were created?

Also, unless that worker is ambidextrous, he's of the opposite handedness vs. the worker who made those parallel tool marks on that stone face.


> "At some modern quarries, however, more
> traditional methods of quarrying can still be
> seen. At the peperino tuff quarries near Marino,
> in the Alban Hills south-east of Rome, blocks are
> still extracted with specially-designed long
> versions of the point. The quarryman uses this
> tool to carve narrow separation trenches along the
> side and rear of the desired block.[16] The block
> is then split from the bedrock using numerous
> small flat wedges, or sometimes a bundle of point
> chisels, hammered into the stone along its
> base.[17] The block is then pulled off the quarry
> face with a rope down to a point where it can be
> loaded for transport.[18]"

> Here.

This excerpt is about the separation trench, not about shaping the face of the stone after separation from an adjacent block.


> ...
> Longyou caves:
> [i.imgur.com]
> [interesno.cc]
>
> As said so many time before, clearly demonstrated
> in both pictures and text, these same chisel marks
> are found all over the world wherever stone is
> quarried no different in ancient times than today.

I disagree that this is clear in those photos of the walls, columns, and ceiling of Longyou, unless you know of other citations that more specifically address those particular tool marks. In fact, in Egypt we see those "herringbone" marks which make no sense as hand-chiseled tool marks unless the quarry workers switched between left-handed and right-handed workers on alternating rows. Likewise for this one allegedly from the Roman Empire:


[www.penn.museum]

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 26-Apr-17 15:08 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2770 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 725 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 664 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 649 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 259 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 288 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 564 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 527 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 520 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 474 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 535 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 665 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 726 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 527 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 475 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 364 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 262 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 267 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 326 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 269 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 342 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 300 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 345 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 318 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 224 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 172 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 229 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 208 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 224 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 212 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 217 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 195 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 449 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 511 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 345 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 394 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 300 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 357 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 358 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 380 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 372 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 297 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 302 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 322 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 351 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 302 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 423 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 353 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 384 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 338 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 415 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 424 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 356 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 349 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 306 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 369 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 373 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 474 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 477 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 410 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 357 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 383 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 366 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 416 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 342 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 347 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 396 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 309 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 384 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 355 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 313 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 425 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 237 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 381 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 227 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 331 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 324 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 312 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 369 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 373 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 194 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 208 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 309 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 405 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 256 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 374 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 314 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 380 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 291 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 330 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 258 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 336 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 256 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 330 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 253 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 316 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 343 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 249 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 236 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 272 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 272 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 532 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 316 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 324 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 399 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 437 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 336 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 348 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 453 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 504 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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