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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Ellison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Warwick Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Jon Ellison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What classification and specification of
> > modern
> > > > copper most closely resembles that of the
> > > copper
> > > > available during the AE fourth dynasty?
> > > >
> > > > How would a modern copper of similar
> > > > classification and specification to that of
> > the
> > > AE
> > > > 4th dynasty impact upon the functionality
> of
> > > any
> > > > tooling and any tooling materials
> > experiments?
> > > > Are we suggesting that 4th AE copper
> tooling
> > > was
> > > > of a higher and more suitable specification
> > > than
> > > > today's copper alloys?
> > >
> > >
> > > Not commenting either way. I am merely
> > > recognising that any difference will call
> into
> > > question the resu
>
>
> > If we were to use a modern copper alloy of a
> > higher specification than all known AE
> examples.
> > How would we interpret the results?
>
>
> they would be inconclusive and disputed

Unless of course there was a zero result using high specification modern copper alloys who's specification in all relevant parameters exceeded that of 4th AE copper alloys.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Or even at the very least in terms of
> granite
> > > > working, todays forged tool steel and
> > tungsten
> > > > carbide tipped tools?
> > >
> > > How we do it today is not the question.
> >
> > How we do it today is dictated by the worked
> > material itself, which is unchanged since AE
> > times, Red Granite.
> > Today it is absolutely necessary to use forged
> > tool steel and tungsten carbide.
>
>
> In your opinion

Also in the opinion of the global modern high tensile, tungsten carbide tooling industry and it's millions of customers, myself included.
Proven alternatives are most welcome.


>
>
> A necessary
> > process which supports a modern global industry
> in
> > tool production.
> > Has the red granite become harder and more
> > difficult to work over the last 4500 years or
> so?
>
>
> of course not, don't be silly.

Good, therefore we have eliminated one possible variable.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > With regard to granite working. Did the 4th
> > AE
> > > > have the means to produce and have the use
> of
> > > > forged Steel tools?
> > >
> > > They had access to iron, they had access to
> the
> > > requirements for steeling iron. While I do
> not
> > > think they did I do not rule it out either
> >
> > Where did the 4th AE obtain their iron?
>
> where did I say they did?
>
> > How did they convert their iron into steel
> alloy?
>
> where did I say they did?

Agreed, you didn't say that they did convert iron into steel, you did say that they "had access to the requirements for steeling iron"
Just to clarify.
Does this mean that they had access to the materials and materials science necessary for the conversion of iron into steel alloy?


>
> > Are there any examples of 4th AE steel alloy?
>
> not to my knowedge , no. are tghere any examples
> of same from an earlier civilisation?

Thank you

I'm not aware of any examples of steel alloy from an earlier civilization.


>
>
> >
> > Iron isn't forged tool steel and tungsten
> carbide,
> > nowhere near.
>
> where did I say it was?

Clarifying a possible misunderstanding that iron and steel were some how comparable in terms of high impact tool functionality.
Iron, cast or wrought being unsuitable for the above application.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2698 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 701 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 623 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 625 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 233 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 264 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 532 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 497 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 496 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 445 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 502 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 628 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 704 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 494 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 450 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 339 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 236 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 245 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 286 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 250 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 313 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 269 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 323 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 296 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 209 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 158 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 217 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 194 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 207 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 193 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 204 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 183 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 417 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 476 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 319 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 374 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 282 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 333 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 331 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 352 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 344 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 276 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 269 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 299 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 329 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 279 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 288 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 393 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 349 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 300 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 364 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 295 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 432 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 285 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 396 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 400 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 294 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 289 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 280 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 296 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 355 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 295 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 445 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 442 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 377 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 330 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 360 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 336 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 392 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 314 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 383 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 288 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 281 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 405 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 201 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 352 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 214 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 308 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 287 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 293 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 343 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 185 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 188 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 281 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 382 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 348 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 293 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 282 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 348 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 269 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 271 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 308 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 236 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 226 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 302 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 227 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 293 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 318 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 214 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 209 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 250 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 248 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 499 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 291 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 302 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 373 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 402 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 318 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 315 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 415 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 470 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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