Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Ellison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Warwick Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Jon Ellison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What classification and specification of
> > modern
> > > > copper most closely resembles that of the
> > > copper
> > > > available during the AE fourth dynasty?
> > > >
> > > > How would a modern copper of similar
> > > > classification and specification to that of
> > the
> > > AE
> > > > 4th dynasty impact upon the functionality
> of
> > > any
> > > > tooling and any tooling materials
> > experiments?
> > > > Are we suggesting that 4th AE copper
> tooling
> > > was
> > > > of a higher and more suitable specification
> > > than
> > > > today's copper alloys?
> > >
> > >
> > > Not commenting either way. I am merely
> > > recognising that any difference will call
> into
> > > question the resu
>
>
> > If we were to use a modern copper alloy of a
> > higher specification than all known AE
> examples.
> > How would we interpret the results?
>
>
> they would be inconclusive and disputed

Unless of course there was a zero result using high specification modern copper alloys who's specification in all relevant parameters exceeded that of 4th AE copper alloys.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Or even at the very least in terms of
> granite
> > > > working, todays forged tool steel and
> > tungsten
> > > > carbide tipped tools?
> > >
> > > How we do it today is not the question.
> >
> > How we do it today is dictated by the worked
> > material itself, which is unchanged since AE
> > times, Red Granite.
> > Today it is absolutely necessary to use forged
> > tool steel and tungsten carbide.
>
>
> In your opinion

Also in the opinion of the global modern high tensile, tungsten carbide tooling industry and it's millions of customers, myself included.
Proven alternatives are most welcome.


>
>
> A necessary
> > process which supports a modern global industry
> in
> > tool production.
> > Has the red granite become harder and more
> > difficult to work over the last 4500 years or
> so?
>
>
> of course not, don't be silly.

Good, therefore we have eliminated one possible variable.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > With regard to granite working. Did the 4th
> > AE
> > > > have the means to produce and have the use
> of
> > > > forged Steel tools?
> > >
> > > They had access to iron, they had access to
> the
> > > requirements for steeling iron. While I do
> not
> > > think they did I do not rule it out either
> >
> > Where did the 4th AE obtain their iron?
>
> where did I say they did?
>
> > How did they convert their iron into steel
> alloy?
>
> where did I say they did?

Agreed, you didn't say that they did convert iron into steel, you did say that they "had access to the requirements for steeling iron"
Just to clarify.
Does this mean that they had access to the materials and materials science necessary for the conversion of iron into steel alloy?


>
> > Are there any examples of 4th AE steel alloy?
>
> not to my knowedge , no. are tghere any examples
> of same from an earlier civilisation?

Thank you

I'm not aware of any examples of steel alloy from an earlier civilization.


>
>
> >
> > Iron isn't forged tool steel and tungsten
> carbide,
> > nowhere near.
>
> where did I say it was?

Clarifying a possible misunderstanding that iron and steel were some how comparable in terms of high impact tool functionality.
Iron, cast or wrought being unsuitable for the above application.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2651 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 679 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 598 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 598 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 209 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 242 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 510 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 453 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 295 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 477 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 410 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 468 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 603 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 685 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 472 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 426 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 318 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 215 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 225 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 262 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 229 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 293 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 242 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 296 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 255 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 195 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 143 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 199 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 179 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 193 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 178 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 186 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 164 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 385 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 445 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 298 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 353 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 263 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 313 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 308 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 331 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 323 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 253 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 250 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 275 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 310 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 264 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 266 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 285 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 285 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 282 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 284 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 274 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 296 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 287 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 277 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 410 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 264 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 374 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 273 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 270 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 262 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 276 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 281 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 279 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 290 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 290 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 272 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 420 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 418 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 354 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 309 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 331 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 307 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 362 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 306 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 291 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 294 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 306 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 286 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 338 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 292 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 280 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 266 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 255 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 377 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 177 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 329 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 197 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 286 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 267 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 274 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 323 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 166 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 166 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 260 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 359 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 201 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 321 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 274 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 263 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 329 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 232 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 248 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 216 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 288 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 206 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 207 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 272 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 195 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 265 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 192 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 233 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 231 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 473 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 271 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 280 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 351 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 380 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 298 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 295 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 383 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 444 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.