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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Ellison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Warwick Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Jon Ellison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What classification and specification of
> > modern
> > > > copper most closely resembles that of the
> > > copper
> > > > available during the AE fourth dynasty?
> > > >
> > > > How would a modern copper of similar
> > > > classification and specification to that of
> > the
> > > AE
> > > > 4th dynasty impact upon the functionality
> of
> > > any
> > > > tooling and any tooling materials
> > experiments?
> > > > Are we suggesting that 4th AE copper
> tooling
> > > was
> > > > of a higher and more suitable specification
> > > than
> > > > today's copper alloys?
> > >
> > >
> > > Not commenting either way. I am merely
> > > recognising that any difference will call
> into
> > > question the resu
>
>
> > If we were to use a modern copper alloy of a
> > higher specification than all known AE
> examples.
> > How would we interpret the results?
>
>
> they would be inconclusive and disputed

Unless of course there was a zero result using high specification modern copper alloys who's specification in all relevant parameters exceeded that of 4th AE copper alloys.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Or even at the very least in terms of
> granite
> > > > working, todays forged tool steel and
> > tungsten
> > > > carbide tipped tools?
> > >
> > > How we do it today is not the question.
> >
> > How we do it today is dictated by the worked
> > material itself, which is unchanged since AE
> > times, Red Granite.
> > Today it is absolutely necessary to use forged
> > tool steel and tungsten carbide.
>
>
> In your opinion

Also in the opinion of the global modern high tensile, tungsten carbide tooling industry and it's millions of customers, myself included.
Proven alternatives are most welcome.


>
>
> A necessary
> > process which supports a modern global industry
> in
> > tool production.
> > Has the red granite become harder and more
> > difficult to work over the last 4500 years or
> so?
>
>
> of course not, don't be silly.

Good, therefore we have eliminated one possible variable.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > With regard to granite working. Did the 4th
> > AE
> > > > have the means to produce and have the use
> of
> > > > forged Steel tools?
> > >
> > > They had access to iron, they had access to
> the
> > > requirements for steeling iron. While I do
> not
> > > think they did I do not rule it out either
> >
> > Where did the 4th AE obtain their iron?
>
> where did I say they did?
>
> > How did they convert their iron into steel
> alloy?
>
> where did I say they did?

Agreed, you didn't say that they did convert iron into steel, you did say that they "had access to the requirements for steeling iron"
Just to clarify.
Does this mean that they had access to the materials and materials science necessary for the conversion of iron into steel alloy?


>
> > Are there any examples of 4th AE steel alloy?
>
> not to my knowedge , no. are tghere any examples
> of same from an earlier civilisation?

Thank you

I'm not aware of any examples of steel alloy from an earlier civilization.


>
>
> >
> > Iron isn't forged tool steel and tungsten
> carbide,
> > nowhere near.
>
> where did I say it was?

Clarifying a possible misunderstanding that iron and steel were some how comparable in terms of high impact tool functionality.
Iron, cast or wrought being unsuitable for the above application.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2729 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 713 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 638 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 635 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 248 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 278 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 544 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 509 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 506 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 458 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 516 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 649 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 715 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 400 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 508 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 461 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 353 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 253 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 258 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 316 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 259 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 325 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 286 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 333 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 304 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 218 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 163 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 222 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 202 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 218 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 203 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 210 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 188 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 438 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 490 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 333 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 384 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 291 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 346 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 342 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 368 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 354 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 287 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 282 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 312 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 339 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 290 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 345 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 375 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 293 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 410 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 340 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 338 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 319 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 294 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 361 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 459 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 463 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 389 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 341 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 374 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 350 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 402 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 378 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 396 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 344 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 297 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 413 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 230 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 320 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 315 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 299 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 357 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 188 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 198 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 297 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 391 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 243 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 361 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 299 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 359 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 277 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 315 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 247 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 321 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 244 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 319 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 240 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 235 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 223 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 263 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 260 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 515 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 305 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 315 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 382 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 421 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 327 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 326 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 430 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 487 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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