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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Ellison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Warwick Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Jon Ellison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What classification and specification of
> > modern
> > > > copper most closely resembles that of the
> > > copper
> > > > available during the AE fourth dynasty?
> > > >
> > > > How would a modern copper of similar
> > > > classification and specification to that of
> > the
> > > AE
> > > > 4th dynasty impact upon the functionality
> of
> > > any
> > > > tooling and any tooling materials
> > experiments?
> > > > Are we suggesting that 4th AE copper
> tooling
> > > was
> > > > of a higher and more suitable specification
> > > than
> > > > today's copper alloys?
> > >
> > >
> > > Not commenting either way. I am merely
> > > recognising that any difference will call
> into
> > > question the resu
>
>
> > If we were to use a modern copper alloy of a
> > higher specification than all known AE
> examples.
> > How would we interpret the results?
>
>
> they would be inconclusive and disputed

Unless of course there was a zero result using high specification modern copper alloys who's specification in all relevant parameters exceeded that of 4th AE copper alloys.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Or even at the very least in terms of
> granite
> > > > working, todays forged tool steel and
> > tungsten
> > > > carbide tipped tools?
> > >
> > > How we do it today is not the question.
> >
> > How we do it today is dictated by the worked
> > material itself, which is unchanged since AE
> > times, Red Granite.
> > Today it is absolutely necessary to use forged
> > tool steel and tungsten carbide.
>
>
> In your opinion

Also in the opinion of the global modern high tensile, tungsten carbide tooling industry and it's millions of customers, myself included.
Proven alternatives are most welcome.


>
>
> A necessary
> > process which supports a modern global industry
> in
> > tool production.
> > Has the red granite become harder and more
> > difficult to work over the last 4500 years or
> so?
>
>
> of course not, don't be silly.

Good, therefore we have eliminated one possible variable.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > With regard to granite working. Did the 4th
> > AE
> > > > have the means to produce and have the use
> of
> > > > forged Steel tools?
> > >
> > > They had access to iron, they had access to
> the
> > > requirements for steeling iron. While I do
> not
> > > think they did I do not rule it out either
> >
> > Where did the 4th AE obtain their iron?
>
> where did I say they did?
>
> > How did they convert their iron into steel
> alloy?
>
> where did I say they did?

Agreed, you didn't say that they did convert iron into steel, you did say that they "had access to the requirements for steeling iron"
Just to clarify.
Does this mean that they had access to the materials and materials science necessary for the conversion of iron into steel alloy?


>
> > Are there any examples of 4th AE steel alloy?
>
> not to my knowedge , no. are tghere any examples
> of same from an earlier civilisation?

Thank you

I'm not aware of any examples of steel alloy from an earlier civilization.


>
>
> >
> > Iron isn't forged tool steel and tungsten
> carbide,
> > nowhere near.
>
> where did I say it was?

Clarifying a possible misunderstanding that iron and steel were some how comparable in terms of high impact tool functionality.
Iron, cast or wrought being unsuitable for the above application.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2760 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 724 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 657 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 648 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 257 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 285 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 558 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 520 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 516 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 471 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 532 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 662 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 723 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 523 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 472 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 362 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 259 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 266 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 325 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 264 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 339 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 298 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 343 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 313 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 223 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 172 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 228 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 208 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 224 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 210 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 215 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 194 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 447 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 508 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 342 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 393 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 299 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 354 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 351 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 377 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 371 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 295 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 293 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 322 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 350 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 299 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 382 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 361 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 388 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 460 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 421 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 348 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 345 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 315 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 368 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 319 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 372 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 471 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 473 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 404 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 354 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 381 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 361 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 411 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 353 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 337 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 344 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 393 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 381 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 353 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 309 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 423 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 236 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 371 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 226 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 329 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 322 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 304 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 365 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 194 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 206 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 303 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 403 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 254 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 371 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 312 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 376 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 287 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 304 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 329 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 254 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 331 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 255 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 249 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 313 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 338 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 247 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 307 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 236 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 270 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 270 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 528 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 314 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 322 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 397 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 434 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 335 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 338 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 448 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 502 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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