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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Ellison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Warwick Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Jon Ellison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What classification and specification of
> > modern
> > > > copper most closely resembles that of the
> > > copper
> > > > available during the AE fourth dynasty?
> > > >
> > > > How would a modern copper of similar
> > > > classification and specification to that of
> > the
> > > AE
> > > > 4th dynasty impact upon the functionality
> of
> > > any
> > > > tooling and any tooling materials
> > experiments?
> > > > Are we suggesting that 4th AE copper
> tooling
> > > was
> > > > of a higher and more suitable specification
> > > than
> > > > today's copper alloys?
> > >
> > >
> > > Not commenting either way. I am merely
> > > recognising that any difference will call
> into
> > > question the resu
>
>
> > If we were to use a modern copper alloy of a
> > higher specification than all known AE
> examples.
> > How would we interpret the results?
>
>
> they would be inconclusive and disputed

Unless of course there was a zero result using high specification modern copper alloys who's specification in all relevant parameters exceeded that of 4th AE copper alloys.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Or even at the very least in terms of
> granite
> > > > working, todays forged tool steel and
> > tungsten
> > > > carbide tipped tools?
> > >
> > > How we do it today is not the question.
> >
> > How we do it today is dictated by the worked
> > material itself, which is unchanged since AE
> > times, Red Granite.
> > Today it is absolutely necessary to use forged
> > tool steel and tungsten carbide.
>
>
> In your opinion

Also in the opinion of the global modern high tensile, tungsten carbide tooling industry and it's millions of customers, myself included.
Proven alternatives are most welcome.


>
>
> A necessary
> > process which supports a modern global industry
> in
> > tool production.
> > Has the red granite become harder and more
> > difficult to work over the last 4500 years or
> so?
>
>
> of course not, don't be silly.

Good, therefore we have eliminated one possible variable.

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > With regard to granite working. Did the 4th
> > AE
> > > > have the means to produce and have the use
> of
> > > > forged Steel tools?
> > >
> > > They had access to iron, they had access to
> the
> > > requirements for steeling iron. While I do
> not
> > > think they did I do not rule it out either
> >
> > Where did the 4th AE obtain their iron?
>
> where did I say they did?
>
> > How did they convert their iron into steel
> alloy?
>
> where did I say they did?

Agreed, you didn't say that they did convert iron into steel, you did say that they "had access to the requirements for steeling iron"
Just to clarify.
Does this mean that they had access to the materials and materials science necessary for the conversion of iron into steel alloy?


>
> > Are there any examples of 4th AE steel alloy?
>
> not to my knowedge , no. are tghere any examples
> of same from an earlier civilisation?

Thank you

I'm not aware of any examples of steel alloy from an earlier civilization.


>
>
> >
> > Iron isn't forged tool steel and tungsten
> carbide,
> > nowhere near.
>
> where did I say it was?

Clarifying a possible misunderstanding that iron and steel were some how comparable in terms of high impact tool functionality.
Iron, cast or wrought being unsuitable for the above application.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3036 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 785 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 719 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 691 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 289 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 333 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 594 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 567 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 356 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 548 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 509 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 573 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 688 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 763 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 461 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 550 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 500 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 385 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 298 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 292 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 351 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 288 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 378 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 332 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 372 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 353 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 260 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 197 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 264 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 236 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 248 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 250 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 254 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 223 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 479 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 51 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 45 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 37 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 46 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 47 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 49 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 59 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 546 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 367 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 413 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 330 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 376 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 376 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 399 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 391 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 318 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 323 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 343 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 374 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 329 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 349 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 446 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 375 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 410 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 361 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 385 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 349 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 426 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 362 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 367 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 485 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 445 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 375 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 337 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 388 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 346 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 401 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 353 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 353 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 508 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 494 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 431 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 389 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 408 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 399 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 451 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 387 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 369 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 360 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 362 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 429 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 443 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 364 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 361 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 342 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 373 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 385 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 344 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 454 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 257 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 403 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 248 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 361 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 343 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 333 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 390 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 404 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 216 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 240 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 332 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 432 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 278 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 402 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 332 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 326 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 399 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 320 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 337 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 354 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 281 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 359 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 287 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 340 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 375 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 280 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 330 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 260 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 307 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 306 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 564 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 337 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 342 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 425 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 470 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 356 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 376 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 481 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 526 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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