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Jon Ellison Wrote:
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> Is that really red granite being worked in the video?


At 0:50 Lehner calls it a block of granite.

I got a kick out of Roger's question "So the copper is only guiding the sand but the sand is doing the cutting".

The elephant in the room is that the sand will show preference to cutting the far softer copper rather than cutting any granite. What we don't learn in this video is the ratio of how much more copper is consumed than granite. We've seen this elsewhere and the there are integer multiples of copper mass consumed vs. granite which requires frequent resharping (re-toothing) of the copper and many spare copper saws lying around, ready for frequent replacement.

Also, no statement about comparing the grain found in the artifacts compared to what we see when sand is used. I think it was Gorelick and Gwinnett who showed in their "Lucas vs. Petrie" faux debate that it couldn't have been sand.

Also, no discussion about how they could saw such a perfect planar surface using such a blade.

Look at how loosely the copper tube is sittin in the hole at 4:42 and yet the lip of the whole is so sharply squared off. Looks like the hole is at least 1/2" wider than the diameter of the drill. How can that be?

Again, let's try that with 4500 year old copper sheet technology before applauding Stocks. I think if he had sufficient data he would have published it in his book, and yet it's not there, let alone attempting to publish it in a peer-reviewed journal.

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How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 20:26 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2711 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 706 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 631 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 630 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 239 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 272 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 537 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 499 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 501 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 449 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 507 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 634 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 709 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 501 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 456 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 347 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 243 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 252 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 306 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 255 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 317 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 278 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 329 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 300 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 211 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 161 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 218 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 198 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 214 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 200 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 204 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 185 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 423 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 482 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 326 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 379 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 286 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 343 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 337 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 363 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 349 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 282 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 274 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 306 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 333 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 284 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 294 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 342 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 348 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 300 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 314 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 315 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 438 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 290 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 399 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 405 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 287 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 354 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 356 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 315 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 453 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 454 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 381 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 334 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 367 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 340 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 396 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 367 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 292 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 340 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 290 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 408 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 217 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 357 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 215 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 314 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 309 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 300 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 347 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 359 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 185 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 191 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 288 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 389 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 231 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 301 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 288 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 356 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 272 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 278 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 243 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 315 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 237 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 313 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 230 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 321 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 225 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 290 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 219 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 254 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 253 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 506 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 295 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 307 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 377 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 410 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 324 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 320 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 419 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 478 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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