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Jon Ellison Wrote:
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> Is that really red granite being worked in the video?


At 0:50 Lehner calls it a block of granite.

I got a kick out of Roger's question "So the copper is only guiding the sand but the sand is doing the cutting".

The elephant in the room is that the sand will show preference to cutting the far softer copper rather than cutting any granite. What we don't learn in this video is the ratio of how much more copper is consumed than granite. We've seen this elsewhere and the there are integer multiples of copper mass consumed vs. granite which requires frequent resharping (re-toothing) of the copper and many spare copper saws lying around, ready for frequent replacement.

Also, no statement about comparing the grain found in the artifacts compared to what we see when sand is used. I think it was Gorelick and Gwinnett who showed in their "Lucas vs. Petrie" faux debate that it couldn't have been sand.

Also, no discussion about how they could saw such a perfect planar surface using such a blade.

Look at how loosely the copper tube is sittin in the hole at 4:42 and yet the lip of the whole is so sharply squared off. Looks like the hole is at least 1/2" wider than the diameter of the drill. How can that be?

Again, let's try that with 4500 year old copper sheet technology before applauding Stocks. I think if he had sufficient data he would have published it in his book, and yet it's not there, let alone attempting to publish it in a peer-reviewed journal.

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How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 20:26 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2774 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 727 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 666 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 650 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 260 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 290 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 565 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 528 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 522 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 474 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 536 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 668 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 727 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 415 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 528 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 476 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 366 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 265 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 269 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 328 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 270 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 344 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 301 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 346 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 319 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 227 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 173 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 230 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 209 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 225 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 213 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 219 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 197 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 450 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 512 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 347 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 397 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 301 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 358 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 359 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 381 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 373 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 298 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 305 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 323 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 352 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 303 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 314 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 424 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 354 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 388 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 364 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 391 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 340 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 338 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 466 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 425 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 358 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 318 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 306 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 371 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 378 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 476 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 479 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 414 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 358 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 384 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 367 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 418 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 348 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 399 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 413 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 386 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 345 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 342 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 356 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 314 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 429 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 238 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 385 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 228 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 333 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 326 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 308 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 314 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 373 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 196 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 210 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 311 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 407 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 258 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 375 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 315 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 309 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 381 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 291 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 313 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 333 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 261 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 337 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 257 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 331 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 259 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 319 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 345 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 250 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 312 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 237 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 273 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 275 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 533 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 317 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 325 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 400 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 438 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 338 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 350 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 454 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 504 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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