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Jon Ellison Wrote:
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> Is that really red granite being worked in the video?


At 0:50 Lehner calls it a block of granite.

I got a kick out of Roger's question "So the copper is only guiding the sand but the sand is doing the cutting".

The elephant in the room is that the sand will show preference to cutting the far softer copper rather than cutting any granite. What we don't learn in this video is the ratio of how much more copper is consumed than granite. We've seen this elsewhere and the there are integer multiples of copper mass consumed vs. granite which requires frequent resharping (re-toothing) of the copper and many spare copper saws lying around, ready for frequent replacement.

Also, no statement about comparing the grain found in the artifacts compared to what we see when sand is used. I think it was Gorelick and Gwinnett who showed in their "Lucas vs. Petrie" faux debate that it couldn't have been sand.

Also, no discussion about how they could saw such a perfect planar surface using such a blade.

Look at how loosely the copper tube is sittin in the hole at 4:42 and yet the lip of the whole is so sharply squared off. Looks like the hole is at least 1/2" wider than the diameter of the drill. How can that be?

Again, let's try that with 4500 year old copper sheet technology before applauding Stocks. I think if he had sufficient data he would have published it in his book, and yet it's not there, let alone attempting to publish it in a peer-reviewed journal.

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How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 20:26 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2668 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 687 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 608 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 605 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 218 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 248 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 519 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 469 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 481 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 423 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 482 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 614 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 688 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 480 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 435 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 324 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 221 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 230 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 269 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 237 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 300 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 249 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 304 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 268 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 200 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 149 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 205 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 182 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 197 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 183 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 193 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 173 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 394 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 456 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 305 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 362 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 268 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 318 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 318 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 337 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 331 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 262 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 255 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 281 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 315 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 268 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 270 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 374 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 293 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 293 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 286 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 288 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 346 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 280 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 297 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 284 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 417 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 269 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 384 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 382 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 314 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 279 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 275 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 265 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 283 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 287 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 282 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 340 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 296 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 297 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 280 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 426 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 427 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 364 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 316 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 344 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 311 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 375 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 299 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 291 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 345 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 365 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 297 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 285 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 274 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 262 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 389 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 183 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 335 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 201 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 293 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 289 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 276 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 280 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 333 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 170 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 173 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 265 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 367 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 209 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 281 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 270 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 338 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 239 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 253 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 291 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 223 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 211 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 289 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 213 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 278 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 301 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 200 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 273 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 196 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 238 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 236 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 481 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 277 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 285 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 358 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 386 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 305 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 299 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 397 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 453 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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