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Jon Ellison Wrote:
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> Is that really red granite being worked in the video?


At 0:50 Lehner calls it a block of granite.

I got a kick out of Roger's question "So the copper is only guiding the sand but the sand is doing the cutting".

The elephant in the room is that the sand will show preference to cutting the far softer copper rather than cutting any granite. What we don't learn in this video is the ratio of how much more copper is consumed than granite. We've seen this elsewhere and the there are integer multiples of copper mass consumed vs. granite which requires frequent resharping (re-toothing) of the copper and many spare copper saws lying around, ready for frequent replacement.

Also, no statement about comparing the grain found in the artifacts compared to what we see when sand is used. I think it was Gorelick and Gwinnett who showed in their "Lucas vs. Petrie" faux debate that it couldn't have been sand.

Also, no discussion about how they could saw such a perfect planar surface using such a blade.

Look at how loosely the copper tube is sittin in the hole at 4:42 and yet the lip of the whole is so sharply squared off. Looks like the hole is at least 1/2" wider than the diameter of the drill. How can that be?

Again, let's try that with 4500 year old copper sheet technology before applauding Stocks. I think if he had sufficient data he would have published it in his book, and yet it's not there, let alone attempting to publish it in a peer-reviewed journal.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 20:26 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3120 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 823 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 754 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 725 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 316 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 362 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 626 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 605 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 384 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 577 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 553 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 602 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 715 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 794 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 493 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 580 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 528 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 416 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 337 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 317 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 377 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 316 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 410 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 360 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 397 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 382 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 292 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 225 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 292 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 260 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 276 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 278 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 290 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 251 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 527 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 72 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 68 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 57 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 67 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 68 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 71 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 97 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 583 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 393 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 439 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 352 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 404 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 406 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 439 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 418 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 346 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 350 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 369 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 404 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 356 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 380 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 486 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 399 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 392 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 447 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 386 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 397 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 417 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 389 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 383 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 407 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 512 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 460 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 474 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 405 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 421 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 380 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 365 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 388 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 368 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 369 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 425 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 393 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 385 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 382 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 536 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 522 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 459 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 425 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 440 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 432 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 483 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 401 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 387 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 387 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 462 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 394 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 383 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 386 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 373 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 480 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 431 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 274 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 386 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 354 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 420 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 431 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 241 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 268 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 360 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 461 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 430 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 359 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 425 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 355 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 395 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 309 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 389 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 314 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 392 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 313 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 367 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 409 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 304 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 379 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 284 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 338 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 337 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 592 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 362 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 371 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 458 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 504 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 380 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 402 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 517 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 556 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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