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Warwick Wrote:
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> Or even iron.
Quote

Regardless, they must have had at least bronze as the Mesopotamian had been using it for 1,000yrs before and iron is found in Egypt earlier than the iron age and is even mentioned in a 6th Dynasty text: "The doors of Pekh-ka which are in the abyss open themselves to Pepi, the doors of the iron which is the ceiling of the sky open themselves to Pepi, and he passeth through them;". A smelted iron dagger was found in an Anatolian (Hattic) tomb dated to 2500BC and evidence of iron use dates further in Mesopotamia to at least 3000BC.
Here

I think its possible the industrial grade tools used iron but the tooling for the grunt work of quarrying I do not see as reasonable as the temperatures required to make iron usable on a large scale were too much.

Of interest from the same thread:
Quote

Maybe the key to the AE stone working [namely granite] was the discovery of relatively small caches of iron, even meteoric, which they made into "sacred tools" to build the monuments of the gods. Like I said, these tools must have been rare meaning they may have only made a handful of them given the limited amount of material they had. If you take all the granite work at Giza, for example, particularly given the fact they had ample time to fabricate the blocks, in reality it could all be done with just a few saws, lathes, ect.

If they had only one saw that could only cut one block a week this means all of the granite in G1 could have been easily cut in well less than 2yrs. No granite in G1 or G2. The rest of the fine cut granite at Giza is found facing the Valley Temple-another 2-3yrs? If you took all the cut and dressed granite blocks attributed to the 4th Dynasty at Giza and Abu Roash, cutting just one block a week with one saw, I bet you could easily cut all of it in 5yrs or less. 260 blocks. I don't know how many blocks of course but for sake of argument say it took 10yrs instead. Now imagine what you could do with two saws running that each could cut two blocks a week. All of the granite needed could be cut in a few years which of course in reality would only be a few months for each structure.

So you've got thousands of poor bastards using the basic tools we know they used to cut the core blocks with 2 saws at the "saw palace" at the quarry cutting granite as needed to spec. By the time they get to the point they would install the granite it would have already been cut and waiting for transport which would have obviously been planned for as that would have taken time as well.

At the beginning of the 5th Dynasty we all of sudden see round columns-the invention of the lathe perhaps?

I would also bring up again the "renaissance" of the NK which we see an explosion of the use of granite which just so happens to coincide with the increased use of iron in Anaotlia (and elsewhere) and the arrival of the Hyksos, likely Hurrians from Anatolia, and a few centuries later the Hittites of Anatolia of who the AE had extensive contact with the NK none greater than the time of Ramses II, the greatest builder of them all. I don't think this is a coincidence.

> The arguments re lack of evidence cut both ways in
> that regard.

Indeed.

The hydraulic nature of the Mediterranean must be taken into account when considering the possibilities regardless of what is actually found in the archaeological record in Egypt as so much is missing anyways. This does not give all the answers but at least creates a greater baseline to work with.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3155 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 851 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 762 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 743 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 326 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 373 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 634 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 622 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 397 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 593 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 567 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 621 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 727 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 810 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 509 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 590 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 538 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 438 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 348 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 330 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 391 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 328 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 423 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 373 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 412 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 398 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 306 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 237 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 304 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 273 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 288 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 291 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 297 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 264 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 544 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 78 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 75 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 63 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 73 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 74 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 77 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 107 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 601 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 404 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 451 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 365 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 411 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 417 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 451 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 428 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 357 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 360 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 382 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 421 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 367 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 503 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 403 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 464 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 401 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 468 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 407 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 394 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 526 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 469 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 488 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 417 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 426 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 438 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 392 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 371 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 429 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 379 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 379 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 430 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 404 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 392 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 550 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 539 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 465 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 436 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 455 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 450 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 495 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 426 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 416 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 400 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 400 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 480 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 493 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 448 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 413 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 397 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 424 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 382 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 493 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 294 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 447 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 287 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 397 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 382 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 365 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 371 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 435 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 440 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 252 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 279 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 367 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 476 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 312 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 446 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 371 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 361 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 439 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 365 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 376 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 413 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 321 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 403 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 326 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 404 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 321 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 384 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 422 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 316 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 392 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 297 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 343 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 349 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 607 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 374 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 380 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 466 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 519 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 394 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 416 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 533 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 566 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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