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Warwick Wrote:
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> Or even iron.
Quote

Regardless, they must have had at least bronze as the Mesopotamian had been using it for 1,000yrs before and iron is found in Egypt earlier than the iron age and is even mentioned in a 6th Dynasty text: "The doors of Pekh-ka which are in the abyss open themselves to Pepi, the doors of the iron which is the ceiling of the sky open themselves to Pepi, and he passeth through them;". A smelted iron dagger was found in an Anatolian (Hattic) tomb dated to 2500BC and evidence of iron use dates further in Mesopotamia to at least 3000BC.
Here

I think its possible the industrial grade tools used iron but the tooling for the grunt work of quarrying I do not see as reasonable as the temperatures required to make iron usable on a large scale were too much.

Of interest from the same thread:
Quote

Maybe the key to the AE stone working [namely granite] was the discovery of relatively small caches of iron, even meteoric, which they made into "sacred tools" to build the monuments of the gods. Like I said, these tools must have been rare meaning they may have only made a handful of them given the limited amount of material they had. If you take all the granite work at Giza, for example, particularly given the fact they had ample time to fabricate the blocks, in reality it could all be done with just a few saws, lathes, ect.

If they had only one saw that could only cut one block a week this means all of the granite in G1 could have been easily cut in well less than 2yrs. No granite in G1 or G2. The rest of the fine cut granite at Giza is found facing the Valley Temple-another 2-3yrs? If you took all the cut and dressed granite blocks attributed to the 4th Dynasty at Giza and Abu Roash, cutting just one block a week with one saw, I bet you could easily cut all of it in 5yrs or less. 260 blocks. I don't know how many blocks of course but for sake of argument say it took 10yrs instead. Now imagine what you could do with two saws running that each could cut two blocks a week. All of the granite needed could be cut in a few years which of course in reality would only be a few months for each structure.

So you've got thousands of poor bastards using the basic tools we know they used to cut the core blocks with 2 saws at the "saw palace" at the quarry cutting granite as needed to spec. By the time they get to the point they would install the granite it would have already been cut and waiting for transport which would have obviously been planned for as that would have taken time as well.

At the beginning of the 5th Dynasty we all of sudden see round columns-the invention of the lathe perhaps?

I would also bring up again the "renaissance" of the NK which we see an explosion of the use of granite which just so happens to coincide with the increased use of iron in Anaotlia (and elsewhere) and the arrival of the Hyksos, likely Hurrians from Anatolia, and a few centuries later the Hittites of Anatolia of who the AE had extensive contact with the NK none greater than the time of Ramses II, the greatest builder of them all. I don't think this is a coincidence.

> The arguments re lack of evidence cut both ways in
> that regard.

Indeed.

The hydraulic nature of the Mediterranean must be taken into account when considering the possibilities regardless of what is actually found in the archaeological record in Egypt as so much is missing anyways. This does not give all the answers but at least creates a greater baseline to work with.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2747 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 719 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 651 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 642 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 253 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 283 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 550 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 517 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 513 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 465 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 527 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 659 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 720 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 518 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 467 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 359 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 258 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 265 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 321 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 264 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 332 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 293 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 341 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 310 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 220 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 169 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 226 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 205 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 220 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 209 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 214 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 192 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 442 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 502 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 339 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 392 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 297 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 353 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 349 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 375 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 368 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 293 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 289 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 319 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 347 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 297 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 374 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 358 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 385 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 451 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 413 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 346 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 314 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 318 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 369 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 466 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 470 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 394 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 350 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 378 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 360 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 405 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 389 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 377 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 337 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 422 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 233 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 223 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 326 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 320 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 309 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 192 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 204 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 302 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 398 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 251 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 310 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 369 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 299 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 325 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 252 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 253 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 246 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 307 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 334 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 243 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 232 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 268 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 268 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 522 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 312 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 319 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 391 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 430 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 333 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 333 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 439 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 498 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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