Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or even iron.
Quote

Regardless, they must have had at least bronze as the Mesopotamian had been using it for 1,000yrs before and iron is found in Egypt earlier than the iron age and is even mentioned in a 6th Dynasty text: "The doors of Pekh-ka which are in the abyss open themselves to Pepi, the doors of the iron which is the ceiling of the sky open themselves to Pepi, and he passeth through them;". A smelted iron dagger was found in an Anatolian (Hattic) tomb dated to 2500BC and evidence of iron use dates further in Mesopotamia to at least 3000BC.
Here

I think its possible the industrial grade tools used iron but the tooling for the grunt work of quarrying I do not see as reasonable as the temperatures required to make iron usable on a large scale were too much.

Of interest from the same thread:
Quote

Maybe the key to the AE stone working [namely granite] was the discovery of relatively small caches of iron, even meteoric, which they made into "sacred tools" to build the monuments of the gods. Like I said, these tools must have been rare meaning they may have only made a handful of them given the limited amount of material they had. If you take all the granite work at Giza, for example, particularly given the fact they had ample time to fabricate the blocks, in reality it could all be done with just a few saws, lathes, ect.

If they had only one saw that could only cut one block a week this means all of the granite in G1 could have been easily cut in well less than 2yrs. No granite in G1 or G2. The rest of the fine cut granite at Giza is found facing the Valley Temple-another 2-3yrs? If you took all the cut and dressed granite blocks attributed to the 4th Dynasty at Giza and Abu Roash, cutting just one block a week with one saw, I bet you could easily cut all of it in 5yrs or less. 260 blocks. I don't know how many blocks of course but for sake of argument say it took 10yrs instead. Now imagine what you could do with two saws running that each could cut two blocks a week. All of the granite needed could be cut in a few years which of course in reality would only be a few months for each structure.

So you've got thousands of poor bastards using the basic tools we know they used to cut the core blocks with 2 saws at the "saw palace" at the quarry cutting granite as needed to spec. By the time they get to the point they would install the granite it would have already been cut and waiting for transport which would have obviously been planned for as that would have taken time as well.

At the beginning of the 5th Dynasty we all of sudden see round columns-the invention of the lathe perhaps?

I would also bring up again the "renaissance" of the NK which we see an explosion of the use of granite which just so happens to coincide with the increased use of iron in Anaotlia (and elsewhere) and the arrival of the Hyksos, likely Hurrians from Anatolia, and a few centuries later the Hittites of Anatolia of who the AE had extensive contact with the NK none greater than the time of Ramses II, the greatest builder of them all. I don't think this is a coincidence.

> The arguments re lack of evidence cut both ways in
> that regard.

Indeed.

The hydraulic nature of the Mediterranean must be taken into account when considering the possibilities regardless of what is actually found in the archaeological record in Egypt as so much is missing anyways. This does not give all the answers but at least creates a greater baseline to work with.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2701 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 702 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 623 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 625 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 233 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 265 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 532 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 497 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 318 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 496 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 445 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 502 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 628 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 704 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 495 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 451 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 340 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 237 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 245 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 287 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 250 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 313 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 270 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 323 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 296 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 209 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 159 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 217 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 195 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 209 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 194 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 204 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 184 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 418 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 479 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 320 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 375 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 282 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 333 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 333 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 354 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 345 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 277 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 271 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 299 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 331 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 280 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 288 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 394 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 364 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 295 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 434 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 285 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 397 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 401 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 295 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 291 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 280 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 296 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 355 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 309 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 448 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 443 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 378 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 330 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 361 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 337 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 392 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 315 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 306 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 384 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 288 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 360 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 405 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 204 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 352 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 215 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 308 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 288 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 294 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 343 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 185 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 188 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 283 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 385 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 348 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 350 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 269 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 271 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 308 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 238 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 226 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 227 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 294 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 318 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 214 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 286 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 210 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 252 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 249 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 500 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 291 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 303 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 374 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 402 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 318 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 315 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 416 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 470 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.