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Warwick Wrote:
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> Or even iron.
Quote

Regardless, they must have had at least bronze as the Mesopotamian had been using it for 1,000yrs before and iron is found in Egypt earlier than the iron age and is even mentioned in a 6th Dynasty text: "The doors of Pekh-ka which are in the abyss open themselves to Pepi, the doors of the iron which is the ceiling of the sky open themselves to Pepi, and he passeth through them;". A smelted iron dagger was found in an Anatolian (Hattic) tomb dated to 2500BC and evidence of iron use dates further in Mesopotamia to at least 3000BC.
Here

I think its possible the industrial grade tools used iron but the tooling for the grunt work of quarrying I do not see as reasonable as the temperatures required to make iron usable on a large scale were too much.

Of interest from the same thread:
Quote

Maybe the key to the AE stone working [namely granite] was the discovery of relatively small caches of iron, even meteoric, which they made into "sacred tools" to build the monuments of the gods. Like I said, these tools must have been rare meaning they may have only made a handful of them given the limited amount of material they had. If you take all the granite work at Giza, for example, particularly given the fact they had ample time to fabricate the blocks, in reality it could all be done with just a few saws, lathes, ect.

If they had only one saw that could only cut one block a week this means all of the granite in G1 could have been easily cut in well less than 2yrs. No granite in G1 or G2. The rest of the fine cut granite at Giza is found facing the Valley Temple-another 2-3yrs? If you took all the cut and dressed granite blocks attributed to the 4th Dynasty at Giza and Abu Roash, cutting just one block a week with one saw, I bet you could easily cut all of it in 5yrs or less. 260 blocks. I don't know how many blocks of course but for sake of argument say it took 10yrs instead. Now imagine what you could do with two saws running that each could cut two blocks a week. All of the granite needed could be cut in a few years which of course in reality would only be a few months for each structure.

So you've got thousands of poor bastards using the basic tools we know they used to cut the core blocks with 2 saws at the "saw palace" at the quarry cutting granite as needed to spec. By the time they get to the point they would install the granite it would have already been cut and waiting for transport which would have obviously been planned for as that would have taken time as well.

At the beginning of the 5th Dynasty we all of sudden see round columns-the invention of the lathe perhaps?

I would also bring up again the "renaissance" of the NK which we see an explosion of the use of granite which just so happens to coincide with the increased use of iron in Anaotlia (and elsewhere) and the arrival of the Hyksos, likely Hurrians from Anatolia, and a few centuries later the Hittites of Anatolia of who the AE had extensive contact with the NK none greater than the time of Ramses II, the greatest builder of them all. I don't think this is a coincidence.

> The arguments re lack of evidence cut both ways in
> that regard.

Indeed.

The hydraulic nature of the Mediterranean must be taken into account when considering the possibilities regardless of what is actually found in the archaeological record in Egypt as so much is missing anyways. This does not give all the answers but at least creates a greater baseline to work with.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2544 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 616 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 522 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 528 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 169 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 188 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 449 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 385 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 250 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 423 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 333 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 394 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 545 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 625 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 413 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 370 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 265 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 175 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 186 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 213 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 183 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 235 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 182 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 233 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 188 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 158 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 108 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 153 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 135 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 152 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 135 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 138 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 121 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 313 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 386 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 259 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 307 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 220 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 265 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 252 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 268 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 268 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 200 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 211 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 228 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 263 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 218 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 239 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 258 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 232 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 273 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 241 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 242 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 275 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 239 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 271 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 225 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 253 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 236 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 226 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 210 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 254 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 266 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 229 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 222 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 215 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 273 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 230 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 229 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 232 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 279 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 244 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 236 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 229 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 363 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 356 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 295 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 262 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 287 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 232 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 289 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 257 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 242 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 243 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 264 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 243 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 286 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 269 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 253 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 228 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 222 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 282 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 252 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 245 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 264 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 208 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 141 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 275 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 161 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 246 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 237 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 226 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 223 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 262 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 272 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 138 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 125 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 215 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 158 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 264 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 228 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 216 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 270 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 179 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 207 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 234 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 170 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 238 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 158 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 233 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 160 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 226 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 240 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 151 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 147 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 183 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 187 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 415 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 226 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 227 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 287 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 329 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 252 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 238 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 300 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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