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Warwick Wrote:
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> Or even iron.
Quote

Regardless, they must have had at least bronze as the Mesopotamian had been using it for 1,000yrs before and iron is found in Egypt earlier than the iron age and is even mentioned in a 6th Dynasty text: "The doors of Pekh-ka which are in the abyss open themselves to Pepi, the doors of the iron which is the ceiling of the sky open themselves to Pepi, and he passeth through them;". A smelted iron dagger was found in an Anatolian (Hattic) tomb dated to 2500BC and evidence of iron use dates further in Mesopotamia to at least 3000BC.
Here

I think its possible the industrial grade tools used iron but the tooling for the grunt work of quarrying I do not see as reasonable as the temperatures required to make iron usable on a large scale were too much.

Of interest from the same thread:
Quote

Maybe the key to the AE stone working [namely granite] was the discovery of relatively small caches of iron, even meteoric, which they made into "sacred tools" to build the monuments of the gods. Like I said, these tools must have been rare meaning they may have only made a handful of them given the limited amount of material they had. If you take all the granite work at Giza, for example, particularly given the fact they had ample time to fabricate the blocks, in reality it could all be done with just a few saws, lathes, ect.

If they had only one saw that could only cut one block a week this means all of the granite in G1 could have been easily cut in well less than 2yrs. No granite in G1 or G2. The rest of the fine cut granite at Giza is found facing the Valley Temple-another 2-3yrs? If you took all the cut and dressed granite blocks attributed to the 4th Dynasty at Giza and Abu Roash, cutting just one block a week with one saw, I bet you could easily cut all of it in 5yrs or less. 260 blocks. I don't know how many blocks of course but for sake of argument say it took 10yrs instead. Now imagine what you could do with two saws running that each could cut two blocks a week. All of the granite needed could be cut in a few years which of course in reality would only be a few months for each structure.

So you've got thousands of poor bastards using the basic tools we know they used to cut the core blocks with 2 saws at the "saw palace" at the quarry cutting granite as needed to spec. By the time they get to the point they would install the granite it would have already been cut and waiting for transport which would have obviously been planned for as that would have taken time as well.

At the beginning of the 5th Dynasty we all of sudden see round columns-the invention of the lathe perhaps?

I would also bring up again the "renaissance" of the NK which we see an explosion of the use of granite which just so happens to coincide with the increased use of iron in Anaotlia (and elsewhere) and the arrival of the Hyksos, likely Hurrians from Anatolia, and a few centuries later the Hittites of Anatolia of who the AE had extensive contact with the NK none greater than the time of Ramses II, the greatest builder of them all. I don't think this is a coincidence.

> The arguments re lack of evidence cut both ways in
> that regard.

Indeed.

The hydraulic nature of the Mediterranean must be taken into account when considering the possibilities regardless of what is actually found in the archaeological record in Egypt as so much is missing anyways. This does not give all the answers but at least creates a greater baseline to work with.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2729 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 714 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 638 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 635 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 248 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 279 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 544 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 509 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 506 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 458 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 517 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 649 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 715 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 400 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 509 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 462 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 354 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 253 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 258 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 317 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 259 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 325 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 287 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 333 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 304 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 218 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 164 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 222 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 202 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 218 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 203 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 210 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 188 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 439 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 490 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 333 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 384 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 291 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 346 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 343 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 369 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 355 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 287 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 283 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 312 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 340 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 291 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 345 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 314 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 375 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 444 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 293 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 407 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 342 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 295 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 361 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 459 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 463 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 390 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 342 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 374 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 351 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 402 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 378 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 396 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 344 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 297 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 413 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 231 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 320 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 315 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 299 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 304 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 358 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 188 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 198 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 297 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 391 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 243 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 361 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 300 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 277 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 315 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 248 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 322 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 244 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 319 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 240 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 304 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 235 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 296 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 224 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 264 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 260 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 516 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 305 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 316 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 382 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 422 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 327 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 326 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 430 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 487 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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