Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or even iron.
Quote

Regardless, they must have had at least bronze as the Mesopotamian had been using it for 1,000yrs before and iron is found in Egypt earlier than the iron age and is even mentioned in a 6th Dynasty text: "The doors of Pekh-ka which are in the abyss open themselves to Pepi, the doors of the iron which is the ceiling of the sky open themselves to Pepi, and he passeth through them;". A smelted iron dagger was found in an Anatolian (Hattic) tomb dated to 2500BC and evidence of iron use dates further in Mesopotamia to at least 3000BC.
Here

I think its possible the industrial grade tools used iron but the tooling for the grunt work of quarrying I do not see as reasonable as the temperatures required to make iron usable on a large scale were too much.

Of interest from the same thread:
Quote

Maybe the key to the AE stone working [namely granite] was the discovery of relatively small caches of iron, even meteoric, which they made into "sacred tools" to build the monuments of the gods. Like I said, these tools must have been rare meaning they may have only made a handful of them given the limited amount of material they had. If you take all the granite work at Giza, for example, particularly given the fact they had ample time to fabricate the blocks, in reality it could all be done with just a few saws, lathes, ect.

If they had only one saw that could only cut one block a week this means all of the granite in G1 could have been easily cut in well less than 2yrs. No granite in G1 or G2. The rest of the fine cut granite at Giza is found facing the Valley Temple-another 2-3yrs? If you took all the cut and dressed granite blocks attributed to the 4th Dynasty at Giza and Abu Roash, cutting just one block a week with one saw, I bet you could easily cut all of it in 5yrs or less. 260 blocks. I don't know how many blocks of course but for sake of argument say it took 10yrs instead. Now imagine what you could do with two saws running that each could cut two blocks a week. All of the granite needed could be cut in a few years which of course in reality would only be a few months for each structure.

So you've got thousands of poor bastards using the basic tools we know they used to cut the core blocks with 2 saws at the "saw palace" at the quarry cutting granite as needed to spec. By the time they get to the point they would install the granite it would have already been cut and waiting for transport which would have obviously been planned for as that would have taken time as well.

At the beginning of the 5th Dynasty we all of sudden see round columns-the invention of the lathe perhaps?

I would also bring up again the "renaissance" of the NK which we see an explosion of the use of granite which just so happens to coincide with the increased use of iron in Anaotlia (and elsewhere) and the arrival of the Hyksos, likely Hurrians from Anatolia, and a few centuries later the Hittites of Anatolia of who the AE had extensive contact with the NK none greater than the time of Ramses II, the greatest builder of them all. I don't think this is a coincidence.

> The arguments re lack of evidence cut both ways in
> that regard.

Indeed.

The hydraulic nature of the Mediterranean must be taken into account when considering the possibilities regardless of what is actually found in the archaeological record in Egypt as so much is missing anyways. This does not give all the answers but at least creates a greater baseline to work with.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2599 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 648 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 559 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 560 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 185 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 211 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 480 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 270 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 447 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 364 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 575 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 657 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 349 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 442 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 400 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 291 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 194 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 206 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 235 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 206 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 265 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 212 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 268 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 218 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 173 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 123 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 170 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 158 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 172 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 156 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 158 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 141 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 346 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 413 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 276 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 331 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 238 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 287 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 282 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 300 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 294 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 230 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 229 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 253 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 286 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 243 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 252 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 340 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 289 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 263 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 299 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 266 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 260 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 262 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 297 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 247 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 275 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 266 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 255 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 383 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 240 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 278 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 290 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 252 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 248 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 235 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 297 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 255 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 259 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 259 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 269 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 266 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 251 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 393 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 386 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 322 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 282 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 310 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 272 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 323 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 279 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 263 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 269 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 286 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 267 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 272 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 257 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 245 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 281 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 270 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 283 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 228 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 342 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 158 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 304 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 178 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 265 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 265 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 245 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 246 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 294 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 302 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 149 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 145 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 231 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 332 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 175 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 252 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 241 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 300 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 202 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 225 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 257 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 196 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 263 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 179 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 259 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 184 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 247 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 268 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 174 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 242 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 170 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 207 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 205 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 448 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 249 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 256 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 316 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 353 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 272 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 271 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 339 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.