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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warwick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> > purer mineral lode, under more specific
> > conditions. Also the source ores they worked
> with
> > are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> > today.
>
> I fail to see it has anything to do with the
> quality of ore, but rather in modern times our
> mining and refining process is much more advanced
> namely the ability to generate sustained high
> temperatures allowing for standardized means to
> remove impurities. We also rely on standardized
> materials meaning no matter where you go the
> expectation is these materials meet certain
> requirements which forces refining to adhere to
> certain standards.
>
> > The resultant copper does not have the same
> > Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc
> as
> > that which the AE's are known to have.
>
> The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than
> what one will find at their local Home Depot was
> the addition, or at least not the removal, of
> arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure
> copper", which there are good arguments this was
> done on purpose.
>
> > IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> > Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> > observations and results would be inaccurate.
>
> Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone
> working using copper tools make no mention of
> "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder,
> so...". They do not bother to make this
> distinction as the difference is nominal in
> relation to the task at hand as the addition of
> arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into
> "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if
> not made well was actually more brittle which
> defeats the purpose.
>
> The use of standard copper tools on limestone is
> apparent, but equally apparent is that what they
> used on granite was not only of a higher order of
> material strength, but also the tools themselves.
> What this means as of now we still have not
> figured out, but there is no way around it
> regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have
> needed "millions of copper chisels"
> including "thousands of portable smelters"
> just to work the limestone which in and of itself
> there is no tangible evidence of beyond a
> smattering of copper chisels found throughout the
> ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories
> to make these millions of copper chisels and
> thousands of portable smelters? The answers are
> there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it
> than just using such a tool namely the
> infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial
> scale.


I'm not disputing the many technological components that have yet to be adequately explained. (Polite pause while the hysterical laughter subsides)

The point I was trying to make is twofold

1. The type of experimentation required to solve this is beyond an indiviual's capabilities, or at least mine, at this time

2. Any test carried out with modern copper would of course be instantly called into question by the doubting Thomas's...as I stated elsewhere in the thread...I am not a fool. I should add that either am Naive.

3. Ok, I lied. For the most part The how is the least of my interests, but not beyond my understanding. My actual intent re AE stone working is to attempt to forge their sculptures. I've been forging First Nations Art for years, have started on that of the Norse, but want most to get my hands on stone. Of course, I'm always looking for the falsification possibilities in my work

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3362 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 924 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 830 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 818 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 385 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 434 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 697 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 692 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 461 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 654 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 638 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 702 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 789 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 884 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 578 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 657 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 602 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 513 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 412 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 390 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 461 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 395 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 482 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 444 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 490 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 467 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 360 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 295 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 371 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 336 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 347 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 351 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 363 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 328 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 620 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 131 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 139 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 119 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 130 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 133 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 139 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 173 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 668 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 466 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 518 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 423 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 474 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 476 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 517 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 497 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 465 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 427 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 444 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 482 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 428 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 561 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 479 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 468 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 545 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 453 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 513 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 496 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 471 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 536 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 473 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 489 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 588 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 451 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 528 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 558 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 472 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 482 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 502 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 461 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 434 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 491 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 463 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 450 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 437 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 491 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 471 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 451 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 609 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 603 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 524 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 499 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 519 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 525 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 569 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 480 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 460 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 479 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 459 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 562 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 555 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 464 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 483 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 520 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 485 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 483 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 479 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 442 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 557 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 355 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 506 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 345 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 459 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 460 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 429 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 437 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 502 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 499 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 346 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 425 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 538 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 372 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 507 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 431 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 421 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 498 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 423 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 437 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 479 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 378 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 463 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 385 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 462 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 374 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 458 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 487 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 371 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 452 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 403 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 403 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 669 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 434 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 450 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 545 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 576 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 454 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 473 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 696 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 630 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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