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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warwick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> > purer mineral lode, under more specific
> > conditions. Also the source ores they worked
> with
> > are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> > today.
>
> I fail to see it has anything to do with the
> quality of ore, but rather in modern times our
> mining and refining process is much more advanced
> namely the ability to generate sustained high
> temperatures allowing for standardized means to
> remove impurities. We also rely on standardized
> materials meaning no matter where you go the
> expectation is these materials meet certain
> requirements which forces refining to adhere to
> certain standards.
>
> > The resultant copper does not have the same
> > Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc
> as
> > that which the AE's are known to have.
>
> The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than
> what one will find at their local Home Depot was
> the addition, or at least not the removal, of
> arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure
> copper", which there are good arguments this was
> done on purpose.
>
> > IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> > Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> > observations and results would be inaccurate.
>
> Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone
> working using copper tools make no mention of
> "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder,
> so...". They do not bother to make this
> distinction as the difference is nominal in
> relation to the task at hand as the addition of
> arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into
> "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if
> not made well was actually more brittle which
> defeats the purpose.
>
> The use of standard copper tools on limestone is
> apparent, but equally apparent is that what they
> used on granite was not only of a higher order of
> material strength, but also the tools themselves.
> What this means as of now we still have not
> figured out, but there is no way around it
> regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have
> needed "millions of copper chisels"
> including "thousands of portable smelters"
> just to work the limestone which in and of itself
> there is no tangible evidence of beyond a
> smattering of copper chisels found throughout the
> ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories
> to make these millions of copper chisels and
> thousands of portable smelters? The answers are
> there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it
> than just using such a tool namely the
> infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial
> scale.


I'm not disputing the many technological components that have yet to be adequately explained. (Polite pause while the hysterical laughter subsides)

The point I was trying to make is twofold

1. The type of experimentation required to solve this is beyond an indiviual's capabilities, or at least mine, at this time

2. Any test carried out with modern copper would of course be instantly called into question by the doubting Thomas's...as I stated elsewhere in the thread...I am not a fool. I should add that either am Naive.

3. Ok, I lied. For the most part The how is the least of my interests, but not beyond my understanding. My actual intent re AE stone working is to attempt to forge their sculptures. I've been forging First Nations Art for years, have started on that of the Norse, but want most to get my hands on stone. Of course, I'm always looking for the falsification possibilities in my work

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2527 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 607 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 510 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 513 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 164 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 183 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 441 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 374 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 244 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 412 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 322 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 385 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 537 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 618 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 309 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 409 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 361 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 261 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 170 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 177 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 209 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 176 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 226 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 175 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 226 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 181 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 151 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 104 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 147 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 125 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 145 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 130 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 128 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 113 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 302 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 378 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 252 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 296 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 215 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 261 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 242 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 261 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 261 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 194 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 206 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 223 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 259 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 215 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 235 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 249 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 225 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 264 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 233 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 237 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 270 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 232 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 265 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 219 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 249 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 232 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 221 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 202 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 249 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 260 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 222 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 215 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 209 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 266 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 224 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 225 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 228 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 276 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 240 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 228 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 225 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 357 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 346 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 287 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 259 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 281 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 223 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 279 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 252 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 233 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 235 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 260 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 239 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 278 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 263 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 247 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 222 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 217 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 275 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 241 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 240 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 259 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 200 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 294 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 140 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 268 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 157 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 239 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 232 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 222 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 218 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 254 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 268 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 134 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 124 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 211 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 297 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 155 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 257 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 211 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 264 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 176 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 203 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 229 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 162 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 233 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 152 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 229 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 152 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 221 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 235 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 147 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 212 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 145 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 178 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 181 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 406 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 219 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 219 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 276 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 326 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 246 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 230 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 284 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 362 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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