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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warwick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> > purer mineral lode, under more specific
> > conditions. Also the source ores they worked
> with
> > are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> > today.
>
> I fail to see it has anything to do with the
> quality of ore, but rather in modern times our
> mining and refining process is much more advanced
> namely the ability to generate sustained high
> temperatures allowing for standardized means to
> remove impurities. We also rely on standardized
> materials meaning no matter where you go the
> expectation is these materials meet certain
> requirements which forces refining to adhere to
> certain standards.
>
> > The resultant copper does not have the same
> > Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc
> as
> > that which the AE's are known to have.
>
> The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than
> what one will find at their local Home Depot was
> the addition, or at least not the removal, of
> arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure
> copper", which there are good arguments this was
> done on purpose.
>
> > IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> > Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> > observations and results would be inaccurate.
>
> Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone
> working using copper tools make no mention of
> "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder,
> so...". They do not bother to make this
> distinction as the difference is nominal in
> relation to the task at hand as the addition of
> arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into
> "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if
> not made well was actually more brittle which
> defeats the purpose.
>
> The use of standard copper tools on limestone is
> apparent, but equally apparent is that what they
> used on granite was not only of a higher order of
> material strength, but also the tools themselves.
> What this means as of now we still have not
> figured out, but there is no way around it
> regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have
> needed "millions of copper chisels"
> including "thousands of portable smelters"
> just to work the limestone which in and of itself
> there is no tangible evidence of beyond a
> smattering of copper chisels found throughout the
> ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories
> to make these millions of copper chisels and
> thousands of portable smelters? The answers are
> there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it
> than just using such a tool namely the
> infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial
> scale.


I'm not disputing the many technological components that have yet to be adequately explained. (Polite pause while the hysterical laughter subsides)

The point I was trying to make is twofold

1. The type of experimentation required to solve this is beyond an indiviual's capabilities, or at least mine, at this time

2. Any test carried out with modern copper would of course be instantly called into question by the doubting Thomas's...as I stated elsewhere in the thread...I am not a fool. I should add that either am Naive.

3. Ok, I lied. For the most part The how is the least of my interests, but not beyond my understanding. My actual intent re AE stone working is to attempt to forge their sculptures. I've been forging First Nations Art for years, have started on that of the Norse, but want most to get my hands on stone. Of course, I'm always looking for the falsification possibilities in my work

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2756 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 724 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 657 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 646 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 256 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 284 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 557 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 520 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 515 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 471 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 532 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 661 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 723 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 522 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 471 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 362 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 258 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 265 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 324 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 264 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 336 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 297 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 342 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 310 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 223 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 170 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 228 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 207 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 224 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 210 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 215 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 194 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 447 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 505 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 340 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 392 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 299 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 353 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 351 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 377 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 370 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 294 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 291 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 321 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 350 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 299 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 379 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 360 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 387 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 460 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 420 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 348 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 345 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 315 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 368 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 318 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 371 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 471 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 472 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 402 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 354 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 381 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 361 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 408 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 344 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 393 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 379 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 353 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 308 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 422 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 236 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 224 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 322 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 364 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 193 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 206 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 302 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 402 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 254 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 312 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 375 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 287 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 302 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 253 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 330 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 254 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 248 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 313 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 338 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 247 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 307 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 236 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 270 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 270 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 525 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 312 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 322 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 396 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 434 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 334 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 336 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 444 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 501 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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