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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warwick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> > purer mineral lode, under more specific
> > conditions. Also the source ores they worked
> with
> > are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> > today.
>
> I fail to see it has anything to do with the
> quality of ore, but rather in modern times our
> mining and refining process is much more advanced
> namely the ability to generate sustained high
> temperatures allowing for standardized means to
> remove impurities. We also rely on standardized
> materials meaning no matter where you go the
> expectation is these materials meet certain
> requirements which forces refining to adhere to
> certain standards.
>
> > The resultant copper does not have the same
> > Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc
> as
> > that which the AE's are known to have.
>
> The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than
> what one will find at their local Home Depot was
> the addition, or at least not the removal, of
> arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure
> copper", which there are good arguments this was
> done on purpose.
>
> > IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> > Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> > observations and results would be inaccurate.
>
> Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone
> working using copper tools make no mention of
> "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder,
> so...". They do not bother to make this
> distinction as the difference is nominal in
> relation to the task at hand as the addition of
> arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into
> "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if
> not made well was actually more brittle which
> defeats the purpose.
>
> The use of standard copper tools on limestone is
> apparent, but equally apparent is that what they
> used on granite was not only of a higher order of
> material strength, but also the tools themselves.
> What this means as of now we still have not
> figured out, but there is no way around it
> regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have
> needed "millions of copper chisels"
> including "thousands of portable smelters"
> just to work the limestone which in and of itself
> there is no tangible evidence of beyond a
> smattering of copper chisels found throughout the
> ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories
> to make these millions of copper chisels and
> thousands of portable smelters? The answers are
> there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it
> than just using such a tool namely the
> infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial
> scale.


I'm not disputing the many technological components that have yet to be adequately explained. (Polite pause while the hysterical laughter subsides)

The point I was trying to make is twofold

1. The type of experimentation required to solve this is beyond an indiviual's capabilities, or at least mine, at this time

2. Any test carried out with modern copper would of course be instantly called into question by the doubting Thomas's...as I stated elsewhere in the thread...I am not a fool. I should add that either am Naive.

3. Ok, I lied. For the most part The how is the least of my interests, but not beyond my understanding. My actual intent re AE stone working is to attempt to forge their sculptures. I've been forging First Nations Art for years, have started on that of the Norse, but want most to get my hands on stone. Of course, I'm always looking for the falsification possibilities in my work

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2701 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 701 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 623 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 625 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 233 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 264 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 532 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 497 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 318 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 496 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 445 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 502 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 628 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 704 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 494 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 451 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 339 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 237 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 245 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 286 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 250 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 313 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 270 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 323 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 296 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 209 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 158 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 217 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 195 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 208 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 193 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 204 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 184 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 417 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 479 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 320 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 374 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 282 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 333 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 332 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 353 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 344 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 276 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 270 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 299 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 330 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 279 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 288 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 393 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 364 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 295 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 311 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 434 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 285 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 396 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 400 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 294 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 291 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 280 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 296 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 355 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 298 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 448 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 443 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 377 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 330 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 361 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 337 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 392 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 314 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 384 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 302 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 288 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 360 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 405 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 203 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 352 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 215 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 308 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 288 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 293 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 343 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 185 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 188 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 283 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 385 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 348 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 294 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 282 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 349 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 269 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 271 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 308 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 236 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 226 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 227 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 293 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 318 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 214 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 209 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 251 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 248 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 500 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 291 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 302 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 374 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 402 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 318 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 315 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 415 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 470 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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