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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warwick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> > purer mineral lode, under more specific
> > conditions. Also the source ores they worked
> with
> > are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> > today.
>
> I fail to see it has anything to do with the
> quality of ore, but rather in modern times our
> mining and refining process is much more advanced
> namely the ability to generate sustained high
> temperatures allowing for standardized means to
> remove impurities. We also rely on standardized
> materials meaning no matter where you go the
> expectation is these materials meet certain
> requirements which forces refining to adhere to
> certain standards.
>
> > The resultant copper does not have the same
> > Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc
> as
> > that which the AE's are known to have.
>
> The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than
> what one will find at their local Home Depot was
> the addition, or at least not the removal, of
> arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure
> copper", which there are good arguments this was
> done on purpose.
>
> > IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> > Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> > observations and results would be inaccurate.
>
> Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone
> working using copper tools make no mention of
> "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder,
> so...". They do not bother to make this
> distinction as the difference is nominal in
> relation to the task at hand as the addition of
> arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into
> "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if
> not made well was actually more brittle which
> defeats the purpose.
>
> The use of standard copper tools on limestone is
> apparent, but equally apparent is that what they
> used on granite was not only of a higher order of
> material strength, but also the tools themselves.
> What this means as of now we still have not
> figured out, but there is no way around it
> regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have
> needed "millions of copper chisels"
> including "thousands of portable smelters"
> just to work the limestone which in and of itself
> there is no tangible evidence of beyond a
> smattering of copper chisels found throughout the
> ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories
> to make these millions of copper chisels and
> thousands of portable smelters? The answers are
> there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it
> than just using such a tool namely the
> infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial
> scale.


I'm not disputing the many technological components that have yet to be adequately explained. (Polite pause while the hysterical laughter subsides)

The point I was trying to make is twofold

1. The type of experimentation required to solve this is beyond an indiviual's capabilities, or at least mine, at this time

2. Any test carried out with modern copper would of course be instantly called into question by the doubting Thomas's...as I stated elsewhere in the thread...I am not a fool. I should add that either am Naive.

3. Ok, I lied. For the most part The how is the least of my interests, but not beyond my understanding. My actual intent re AE stone working is to attempt to forge their sculptures. I've been forging First Nations Art for years, have started on that of the Norse, but want most to get my hands on stone. Of course, I'm always looking for the falsification possibilities in my work

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3041 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 787 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 721 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 692 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 290 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 335 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 595 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 569 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 549 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 511 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 574 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 689 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 765 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 463 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 551 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 501 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 386 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 299 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 293 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 352 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 289 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 379 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 333 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 373 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 354 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 262 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 198 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 265 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 237 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 250 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 252 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 256 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 225 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 482 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 52 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 46 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 38 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 47 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 48 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 50 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 62 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 548 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 368 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 414 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 331 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 377 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 377 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 401 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 393 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 319 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 324 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 344 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 376 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 330 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 447 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 365 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 362 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 353 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 386 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 428 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 487 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 434 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 446 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 377 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 367 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 377 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 339 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 342 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 347 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 365 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 355 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 356 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 509 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 495 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 433 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 391 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 410 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 400 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 456 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 388 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 371 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 361 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 378 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 431 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 445 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 363 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 346 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 360 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 386 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 346 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 456 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 258 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 404 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 249 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 362 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 345 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 328 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 334 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 391 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 405 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 217 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 242 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 334 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 433 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 279 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 403 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 333 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 401 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 324 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 338 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 356 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 288 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 361 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 341 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 381 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 334 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 262 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 309 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 307 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 565 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 338 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 344 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 426 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 473 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 357 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 377 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 482 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 527 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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