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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> purer mineral lode, under more specific
> conditions. Also the source ores they worked with
> are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> today.

I fail to see it has anything to do with the quality of ore, but rather in modern times our mining and refining process is much more advanced namely the ability to generate sustained high temperatures allowing for standardized means to remove impurities. We also rely on standardized materials meaning no matter where you go the expectation is these materials meet certain requirements which forces refining to adhere to certain standards.

> The resultant copper does not have the same
> Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc as
> that which the AE's are known to have.

The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than what one will find at their local Home Depot was the addition, or at least not the removal, of arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure copper", which there are good arguments this was done on purpose.

> IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> observations and results would be inaccurate.

Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone working using copper tools make no mention of "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder, so...". They do not bother to make this distinction as the difference is nominal in relation to the task at hand as the addition of arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if not made well was actually more brittle which defeats the purpose.

The use of standard copper tools on limestone is apparent, but equally apparent is that what they used on granite was not only of a higher order of material strength, but also the tools themselves. What this means as of now we still have not figured out, but there is no way around it regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have needed "millions of copper chisels" including "thousands of portable smelters" just to work the limestone which in and of itself there is no tangible evidence of beyond a smattering of copper chisels found throughout the ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories to make these millions of copper chisels and thousands of portable smelters? The answers are there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it than just using such a tool namely the infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial scale.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 16:26 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3020 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 784 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 714 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 691 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 289 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 330 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 594 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 563 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 356 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 548 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 506 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 569 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 688 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 760 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 549 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 500 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 385 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 294 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 290 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 351 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 288 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 374 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 329 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 371 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 349 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 257 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 197 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 261 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 236 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 248 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 246 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 250 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 222 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 479 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 51 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 44 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 37 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 46 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 47 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 49 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 56 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 542 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 366 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 413 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 326 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 376 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 376 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 398 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 391 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 317 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 323 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 343 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 374 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 328 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 344 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 443 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 374 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 358 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 358 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 383 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 349 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 423 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 362 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 364 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 484 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 338 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 445 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 371 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 348 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 388 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 346 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 401 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 352 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 505 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 494 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 431 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 385 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 408 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 394 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 447 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 382 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 368 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 360 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 373 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 356 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 426 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 440 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 361 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 358 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 338 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 405 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 370 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 382 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 341 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 453 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 257 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 403 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 247 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 343 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 326 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 333 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 389 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 400 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 216 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 237 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 331 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 430 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 277 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 401 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 332 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 326 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 399 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 316 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 335 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 354 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 281 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 358 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 284 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 356 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 340 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 371 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 277 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 330 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 259 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 304 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 302 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 560 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 337 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 342 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 425 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 466 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 356 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 376 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 481 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 525 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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