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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> purer mineral lode, under more specific
> conditions. Also the source ores they worked with
> are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> today.

I fail to see it has anything to do with the quality of ore, but rather in modern times our mining and refining process is much more advanced namely the ability to generate sustained high temperatures allowing for standardized means to remove impurities. We also rely on standardized materials meaning no matter where you go the expectation is these materials meet certain requirements which forces refining to adhere to certain standards.

> The resultant copper does not have the same
> Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc as
> that which the AE's are known to have.

The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than what one will find at their local Home Depot was the addition, or at least not the removal, of arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure copper", which there are good arguments this was done on purpose.

> IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> observations and results would be inaccurate.

Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone working using copper tools make no mention of "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder, so...". They do not bother to make this distinction as the difference is nominal in relation to the task at hand as the addition of arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if not made well was actually more brittle which defeats the purpose.

The use of standard copper tools on limestone is apparent, but equally apparent is that what they used on granite was not only of a higher order of material strength, but also the tools themselves. What this means as of now we still have not figured out, but there is no way around it regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have needed "millions of copper chisels" including "thousands of portable smelters" just to work the limestone which in and of itself there is no tangible evidence of beyond a smattering of copper chisels found throughout the ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories to make these millions of copper chisels and thousands of portable smelters? The answers are there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it than just using such a tool namely the infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial scale.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 16:26 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2749 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 719 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 651 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 643 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 253 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 283 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 550 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 517 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 329 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 513 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 465 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 527 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 659 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 720 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 518 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 468 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 359 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 258 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 265 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 322 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 264 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 332 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 294 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 341 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 310 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 221 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 169 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 227 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 205 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 220 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 209 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 214 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 193 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 444 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 502 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 339 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 392 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 297 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 353 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 349 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 375 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 368 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 293 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 289 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 319 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 347 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 297 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 350 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 374 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 319 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 385 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 326 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 332 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 452 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 304 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 413 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 346 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 314 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 318 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 369 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 466 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 470 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 394 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 351 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 378 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 360 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 405 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 334 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 322 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 389 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 403 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 330 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 327 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 377 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 338 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 336 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 351 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 422 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 233 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 223 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 326 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 321 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 309 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 192 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 204 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 302 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 398 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 251 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 367 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 310 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 369 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 285 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 299 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 325 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 252 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 253 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 246 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 307 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 334 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 243 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 232 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 268 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 268 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 522 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 312 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 319 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 392 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 430 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 333 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 333 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 439 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 498 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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