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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> purer mineral lode, under more specific
> conditions. Also the source ores they worked with
> are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> today.

I fail to see it has anything to do with the quality of ore, but rather in modern times our mining and refining process is much more advanced namely the ability to generate sustained high temperatures allowing for standardized means to remove impurities. We also rely on standardized materials meaning no matter where you go the expectation is these materials meet certain requirements which forces refining to adhere to certain standards.

> The resultant copper does not have the same
> Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc as
> that which the AE's are known to have.

The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than what one will find at their local Home Depot was the addition, or at least not the removal, of arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure copper", which there are good arguments this was done on purpose.

> IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> observations and results would be inaccurate.

Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone working using copper tools make no mention of "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder, so...". They do not bother to make this distinction as the difference is nominal in relation to the task at hand as the addition of arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if not made well was actually more brittle which defeats the purpose.

The use of standard copper tools on limestone is apparent, but equally apparent is that what they used on granite was not only of a higher order of material strength, but also the tools themselves. What this means as of now we still have not figured out, but there is no way around it regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have needed "millions of copper chisels" including "thousands of portable smelters" just to work the limestone which in and of itself there is no tangible evidence of beyond a smattering of copper chisels found throughout the ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories to make these millions of copper chisels and thousands of portable smelters? The answers are there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it than just using such a tool namely the infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial scale.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 16:26 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2459 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 566 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 463 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 459 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 147 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 154 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 398 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 216 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 380 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 278 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 504 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 587 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 273 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 367 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 322 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 224 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 145 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 152 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 183 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 147 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 191 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 141 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 183 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 142 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 123 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 90 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 120 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 102 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 124 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 100 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 99 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 85 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 269 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 343 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 219 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 270 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 198 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 230 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 205 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 231 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 222 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 170 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 182 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 188 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 228 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 187 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 216 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 273 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 221 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 189 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 238 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 205 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 215 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 239 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 196 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 233 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 193 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 216 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 204 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 185 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 171 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 303 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 273 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 220 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 228 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 195 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 186 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 186 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 241 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 197 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 197 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 197 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 230 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 206 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 198 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 200 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 325 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 318 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 251 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 235 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 249 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 184 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 255 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 224 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 210 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 208 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 223 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 215 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 243 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 229 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 224 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 192 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 191 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 246 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 212 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 215 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 225 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 182 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 253 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 118 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 231 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 141 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 212 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 197 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 202 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 196 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 225 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 238 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 123 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 108 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 173 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 263 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 129 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 223 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 194 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 183 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 226 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 149 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 172 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 198 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 133 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 210 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 127 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 202 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 122 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 198 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 202 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 123 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 188 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 117 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 144 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 153 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 362 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 186 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 172 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 239 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 284 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 219 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 195 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 253 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 312 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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