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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> purer mineral lode, under more specific
> conditions. Also the source ores they worked with
> are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> today.

I fail to see it has anything to do with the quality of ore, but rather in modern times our mining and refining process is much more advanced namely the ability to generate sustained high temperatures allowing for standardized means to remove impurities. We also rely on standardized materials meaning no matter where you go the expectation is these materials meet certain requirements which forces refining to adhere to certain standards.

> The resultant copper does not have the same
> Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc as
> that which the AE's are known to have.

The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than what one will find at their local Home Depot was the addition, or at least not the removal, of arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure copper", which there are good arguments this was done on purpose.

> IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> observations and results would be inaccurate.

Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone working using copper tools make no mention of "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder, so...". They do not bother to make this distinction as the difference is nominal in relation to the task at hand as the addition of arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if not made well was actually more brittle which defeats the purpose.

The use of standard copper tools on limestone is apparent, but equally apparent is that what they used on granite was not only of a higher order of material strength, but also the tools themselves. What this means as of now we still have not figured out, but there is no way around it regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have needed "millions of copper chisels" including "thousands of portable smelters" just to work the limestone which in and of itself there is no tangible evidence of beyond a smattering of copper chisels found throughout the ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories to make these millions of copper chisels and thousands of portable smelters? The answers are there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it than just using such a tool namely the infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial scale.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 16:26 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3120 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 823 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 754 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 725 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 316 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 362 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 626 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 605 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 384 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 577 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 553 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 602 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 715 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 794 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 493 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 580 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 528 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 416 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 337 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 317 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 377 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 317 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 410 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 360 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 397 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 382 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 292 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 225 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 292 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 260 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 276 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 278 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 290 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 251 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 527 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 72 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 68 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 57 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 67 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 68 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 71 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 97 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 583 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 393 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 439 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 352 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 404 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 407 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 439 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 418 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 346 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 350 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 369 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 404 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 357 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 380 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 486 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 399 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 392 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 447 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 386 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 398 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 417 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 389 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 359 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 383 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 407 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 512 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 376 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 460 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 405 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 421 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 380 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 365 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 388 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 368 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 369 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 425 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 393 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 385 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 382 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 536 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 522 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 459 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 425 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 440 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 432 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 483 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 401 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 387 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 387 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 462 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 391 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 383 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 386 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 373 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 480 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 283 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 431 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 274 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 386 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 354 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 420 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 431 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 241 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 268 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 360 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 461 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 430 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 359 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 425 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 355 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 395 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 309 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 389 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 314 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 392 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 313 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 367 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 409 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 304 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 379 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 284 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 338 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 337 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 592 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 362 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 371 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 458 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 504 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 380 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 402 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 517 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 556 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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