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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> purer mineral lode, under more specific
> conditions. Also the source ores they worked with
> are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> today.

I fail to see it has anything to do with the quality of ore, but rather in modern times our mining and refining process is much more advanced namely the ability to generate sustained high temperatures allowing for standardized means to remove impurities. We also rely on standardized materials meaning no matter where you go the expectation is these materials meet certain requirements which forces refining to adhere to certain standards.

> The resultant copper does not have the same
> Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc as
> that which the AE's are known to have.

The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than what one will find at their local Home Depot was the addition, or at least not the removal, of arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure copper", which there are good arguments this was done on purpose.

> IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> observations and results would be inaccurate.

Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone working using copper tools make no mention of "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder, so...". They do not bother to make this distinction as the difference is nominal in relation to the task at hand as the addition of arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if not made well was actually more brittle which defeats the purpose.

The use of standard copper tools on limestone is apparent, but equally apparent is that what they used on granite was not only of a higher order of material strength, but also the tools themselves. What this means as of now we still have not figured out, but there is no way around it regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have needed "millions of copper chisels" including "thousands of portable smelters" just to work the limestone which in and of itself there is no tangible evidence of beyond a smattering of copper chisels found throughout the ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories to make these millions of copper chisels and thousands of portable smelters? The answers are there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it than just using such a tool namely the infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial scale.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 16:26 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3182 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 865 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 770 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 757 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 336 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 381 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 644 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 638 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 603 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 579 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 639 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 738 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 822 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 517 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 600 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 550 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 455 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 359 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 336 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 402 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 336 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 434 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 382 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 421 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 405 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 312 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 246 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 316 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 283 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 293 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 300 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 309 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 275 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 556 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 84 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 81 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 70 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 79 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 80 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 86 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 119 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 608 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 414 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 462 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 373 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 419 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 427 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 461 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 436 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 363 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 371 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 389 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 429 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 377 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 403 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 509 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 421 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 413 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 404 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 480 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 380 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 431 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 534 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 398 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 477 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 504 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 424 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 445 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 404 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 380 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 437 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 409 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 392 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 387 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 415 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 399 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 560 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 550 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 476 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 446 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 464 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 456 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 507 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 434 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 425 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 407 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 425 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 489 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 500 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 413 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 460 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 428 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 404 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 431 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 390 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 503 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 302 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 454 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 406 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 389 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 372 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 378 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 444 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 450 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 258 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 287 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 378 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 485 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 321 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 457 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 378 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 368 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 450 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 374 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 384 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 424 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 327 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 413 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 336 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 412 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 330 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 394 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 430 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 324 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 402 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 303 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 352 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 357 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 617 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 386 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 400 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 490 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 529 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 400 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 427 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 546 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 578 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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