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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> purer mineral lode, under more specific
> conditions. Also the source ores they worked with
> are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> today.

I fail to see it has anything to do with the quality of ore, but rather in modern times our mining and refining process is much more advanced namely the ability to generate sustained high temperatures allowing for standardized means to remove impurities. We also rely on standardized materials meaning no matter where you go the expectation is these materials meet certain requirements which forces refining to adhere to certain standards.

> The resultant copper does not have the same
> Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc as
> that which the AE's are known to have.

The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than what one will find at their local Home Depot was the addition, or at least not the removal, of arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure copper", which there are good arguments this was done on purpose.

> IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> observations and results would be inaccurate.

Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone working using copper tools make no mention of "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder, so...". They do not bother to make this distinction as the difference is nominal in relation to the task at hand as the addition of arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if not made well was actually more brittle which defeats the purpose.

The use of standard copper tools on limestone is apparent, but equally apparent is that what they used on granite was not only of a higher order of material strength, but also the tools themselves. What this means as of now we still have not figured out, but there is no way around it regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have needed "millions of copper chisels" including "thousands of portable smelters" just to work the limestone which in and of itself there is no tangible evidence of beyond a smattering of copper chisels found throughout the ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories to make these millions of copper chisels and thousands of portable smelters? The answers are there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it than just using such a tool namely the infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial scale.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 16:26 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 2713 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 707 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 633 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 632 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 240 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 272 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 539 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 501 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 501 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 450 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 509 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 637 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 711 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 395 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 502 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 456 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 348 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 244 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 252 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 308 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 255 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 318 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 279 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 329 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 301 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 211 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 161 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 218 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 198 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 214 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 200 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 205 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 185 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 425 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
Re: Would you agree... 483 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 328 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 381 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 286 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 343 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 338 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 364 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 349 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 283 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 276 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 307 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 334 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 285 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 294 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 402 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 343 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 309 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 317 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 348 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 305 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 371 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 301 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 321 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 315 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 318 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 438 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 291 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 399 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 335 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 300 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 289 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 356 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 307 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 310 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 357 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 320 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 316 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 308 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 453 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 458 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 382 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 334 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 368 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 341 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 397 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 331 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 323 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 324 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 333 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 369 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 392 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 319 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 313 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 293 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 366 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 328 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 325 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 341 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 292 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 408 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 219 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 358 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 215 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 314 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 310 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 295 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 300 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 349 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 360 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 186 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 194 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 292 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 389 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 233 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 351 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 301 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 291 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 357 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 273 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 279 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 312 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 244 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 316 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 239 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 317 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 233 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 297 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 323 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 225 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 291 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 220 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 255 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 254 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 507 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 296 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 307 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 378 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 411 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 325 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 321 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 421 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 480 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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