Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just for the record, Matt, I have no trouble at
> all dealing with the truth.



M.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Imhotep 3066 Rofhessa 26-Feb-17 11:39
Re: Imhotep 310 Lee McGiffen 27-Feb-17 12:15
Re: Imhotep 434 Origyptian 27-Feb-17 15:05
Re: Imhotep 362 Thanos5150 27-Feb-17 20:39
Re: Imhotep 317 Corpuscles 28-Feb-17 07:53
Re: Imhotep 260 Rofhessa 28-Feb-17 10:34
Re: Imhotep 258 Corpuscles 28-Feb-17 21:26
Re: Imhotep 231 Rofhessa 03-Mar-17 15:30
Re: Imhotep 203 eyeofhorus33 03-Mar-17 17:04
Re: Imhotep 236 Rofhessa 05-Mar-17 19:14
Re: Imhotep 240 Thanos5150 28-Feb-17 19:07
Re: Imhotep 213 Rofhessa 28-Feb-17 10:30
Re: Imhotep 234 Origyptian 28-Feb-17 15:05
Re: Imhotep 226 cladking 28-Feb-17 17:00
Re: Imhotep 306 eyeofhorus33 28-Feb-17 21:59
Re: Imhotep 269 cladking 28-Feb-17 23:08
Re: Imhotep 250 Origyptian 01-Mar-17 01:46
Re: Imhotep 217 cladking 01-Mar-17 15:08
Re: Imhotep 168 eyeofhorus33 28-Feb-17 21:47
Re: Imhotep 172 Origyptian 28-Feb-17 21:58
Re: Imhotep 162 eyeofhorus33 28-Feb-17 22:05
Re: Imhotep 178 Origyptian 28-Feb-17 22:14
Re: Imhotep 237 eyeofhorus33 28-Feb-17 22:25
Re: Imhotep 390 Origyptian 28-Feb-17 22:30
Re: Imhotep 240 eyeofhorus33 28-Feb-17 22:52
Re: Imhotep 278 Origyptian 28-Feb-17 22:58
Re: Imhotep 169 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Imhotep 236 Corpuscles 28-Feb-17 21:53
Re: Imhotep 192 Origyptian 28-Feb-17 22:09
Re: Imhotep 245 Corpuscles 28-Feb-17 23:08
Re: Imhotep 225 Audrey 01-Mar-17 01:10
Re: Imhotep 221 Origyptian 01-Mar-17 01:56
Re: Imhotep 225 Corpuscles 01-Mar-17 04:30
Re: Imhotep 299 Audrey 01-Mar-17 05:03
Re: Imhotep 213 Corpuscles 01-Mar-17 06:36
Re: Imhotep 227 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 16:04
Re: Imhotep 192 Audrey 01-Mar-17 16:42
Re: Imhotep 190 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 04:13
Re: Imhotep 189 Audrey 01-Mar-17 01:24
Re: Imhotep 218 Thanos5150 28-Feb-17 22:39
Re: Imhotep 224 Origyptian 28-Feb-17 22:55
Re: Imhotep 185 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 03:43
Re: Imhotep 178 Origyptian 01-Mar-17 14:07
Re: Imhotep 170 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 16:52
Re: Imhotep 231 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 03:20
Re: Imhotep 272 Audrey 01-Mar-17 04:43
Re: Imhotep 207 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 14:13
Re: Imhotep 313 Origyptian 01-Mar-17 14:35
Re: Imhotep 206 cladking 01-Mar-17 15:30
Re: Imhotep 211 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 15:57
Re: Imhotep 222 Origyptian 02-Mar-17 03:36
Re: Imhotep 187 Martin Stower 02-Mar-17 18:50
Re: Imhotep 157 Origyptian 02-Mar-17 21:33
Re: Imhotep 216 Martin Stower 02-Mar-17 21:38
Re: Imhotep 219 Origyptian 02-Mar-17 21:56
Re: Imhotep 151 Martin Stower 02-Mar-17 22:30
The weaselling continues. 141 Martin Stower 02-Mar-17 22:14
Re: The weaselling continues. 224 Origyptian 02-Mar-17 22:26
Re: The weaselling continues. 200 Martin Stower 02-Mar-17 22:51
Re: Imhotep 175 cladking 01-Mar-17 15:21
Re: Imhotep 181 Origyptian 01-Mar-17 15:50
Re: Imhotep 208 cladking 01-Mar-17 17:08
Re: Imhotep 173 Thanos5150 01-Mar-17 16:11
Re: Imhotep 148 cladking 01-Mar-17 16:30
Re: Imhotep 260 Thanos5150 01-Mar-17 17:18
Re: Imhotep 199 cladking 01-Mar-17 17:23
Re: Imhotep 235 sfbey 01-Mar-17 17:57
Re: Imhotep 222 cladking 01-Mar-17 19:31
Re: Imhotep 177 Corpuscles 01-Mar-17 21:53
Re: Imhotep 154 cladking 02-Mar-17 01:26
Utterance #373 278 cladking 02-Mar-17 01:52
Re: Utterance #373 178 Corpuscles 02-Mar-17 19:23
Re: Utterance #373 155 cladking 02-Mar-17 19:33
Re: Imhotep 227 cladking 01-Mar-17 16:44
Re: Imhotep 215 Thanos5150 01-Mar-17 19:32
Re: Imhotep 137 cladking 01-Mar-17 19:54
Re: Imhotep 277 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 16:26
Re: Imhotep 149 cladking 01-Mar-17 17:19
Re: Imhotep 171 Audrey 01-Mar-17 17:07
Re: Imhotep 151 Origyptian 01-Mar-17 17:23
Re: Imhotep 179 cladking 01-Mar-17 17:42
Re: Imhotep 226 Audrey 01-Mar-17 18:10
Great Post 197 cladking 01-Mar-17 19:45
Re: Imhotep 202 Martin Stower 01-Mar-17 23:05
Re: Imhotep 281 Thanos5150 01-Mar-17 18:12
Re: Imhotep 251 Audrey 02-Mar-17 06:48
Re: Imhotep 190 Martin Stower 02-Mar-17 11:32
Re: Imhotep 162 Audrey 02-Mar-17 16:51
Re: Imhotep 171 cladking 02-Mar-17 17:04
Imhotep's Sandals. 168 cladking 02-Mar-17 17:09
Re: Imhotep 137 Martin Stower 02-Mar-17 18:58
Re: Imhotep 134 Thanos5150 02-Mar-17 18:10
Re: Imhotep 182 Origyptian 02-Mar-17 18:19
Re: Imhotep 135 Thanos5150 02-Mar-17 18:40
Re: Imhotep 128 Origyptian 02-Mar-17 19:01
Re: Imhotep 199 Thanos5150 03-Mar-17 17:48
Re: Imhotep 208 Origyptian 03-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Imhotep 159 eyeofhorus33 03-Mar-17 22:28
Re: Imhotep 201 Origyptian 03-Mar-17 22:48
Re: Imhotep 176 Martin Stower 04-Mar-17 00:18
Re: Imhotep 143 Origyptian 04-Mar-17 02:40
Re: Imhotep 156 Martin Stower 04-Mar-17 03:38
Re: Imhotep 182 Thanos5150 04-Mar-17 02:33
Re: Imhotep 280 Origyptian 04-Mar-17 04:34
Re: Imhotep 207 Martin Stower 05-Mar-17 01:55
Re: Imhotep 194 Thanos5150 05-Mar-17 02:28
Re: Imhotep 354 Audrey 04-Mar-17 07:43
Re: Imhotep 221 Thanos5150 04-Mar-17 22:59
Re: Imhotep 183 Martin Stower 05-Mar-17 01:05
Re: Imhotep 130 Thanos5150 05-Mar-17 02:00
Re: Imhotep 272 Audrey 05-Mar-17 04:56
Re: Imhotep 134 Origyptian 05-Mar-17 05:32
Re: Imhotep 170 Audrey 05-Mar-17 23:51
Re: Imhotep 219 Thanos5150 05-Mar-17 06:23
Re: Imhotep 183 Martin Stower 05-Mar-17 15:22
Re: Imhotep 187 Thanos5150 05-Mar-17 16:14
Re: Imhotep 226 Audrey 06-Mar-17 02:50
Re: Imhotep 201 Thanos5150 06-Mar-17 05:38
Re: Imhotep 220 R Avry Wilson 06-Mar-17 07:06
Re: Imhotep 274 DUNE 06-Mar-17 14:49
Re: Imhotep 192 Jon Ellison 06-Mar-17 20:33
Re: Imhotep 189 DUNE 06-Mar-17 21:22
Re: Imhotep 188 Origyptian 06-Mar-17 21:38
Re: Imhotep 125 Jon Ellison 06-Mar-17 22:17
Re: Imhotep 127 Jon Ellison 06-Mar-17 22:12
Re: Imhotep 202 Thanos5150 06-Mar-17 23:32
Re: Imhotep 171 DUNE 06-Mar-17 23:56
Re: Imhotep 165 Jon Ellison 07-Mar-17 00:27
Re: Imhotep 160 Jon Ellison 07-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Imhotep 150 Jon Ellison 07-Mar-17 01:16
Re: Imhotep 262 Thanos5150 07-Mar-17 01:40
Re: Imhotep 195 Thanos5150 07-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Imhotep 204 DUNE 07-Mar-17 16:49
Re: Imhotep 182 Thanos5150 07-Mar-17 19:24
Re: Imhotep 159 Thanos5150 07-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Imhotep 235 Corpuscles 07-Mar-17 02:23
Re: Imhotep 233 Origyptian 07-Mar-17 04:45
Re: Imhotep 234 Martin Stower 07-Mar-17 11:11
Re: Imhotep 213 Origyptian 07-Mar-17 13:16
Re: Imhotep 214 Martin Stower 07-Mar-17 15:45
Re: Imhotep 216 Origyptian 07-Mar-17 16:44
Re: Imhotep 215 Martin Stower 07-Mar-17 18:40
Re: Imhotep 231 Corpuscles 07-Mar-17 21:53
Re: Imhotep 156 cladking 08-Mar-17 15:13
Re: Imhotep 282 Origyptian 08-Mar-17 16:29
Re: Imhotep 176 cladking 08-Mar-17 18:12
Re: Imhotep 230 Audrey 09-Mar-17 01:16
Interpretation vs Communication. 150 cladking 09-Mar-17 14:33
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 153 Origyptian 09-Mar-17 14:55
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 98 cladking 09-Mar-17 15:16
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 178 Origyptian 09-Mar-17 16:32
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 193 Jon Ellison 09-Mar-17 15:17
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 191 cladking 09-Mar-17 15:39
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 222 Jon Ellison 09-Mar-17 16:04
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 173 cladking 09-Mar-17 16:27
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 204 Jon Ellison 09-Mar-17 16:47
You Do the Math. 176 cladking 09-Mar-17 19:32
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 130 cladking 09-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 242 Jon Ellison 09-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 113 cladking 09-Mar-17 21:22
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 186 Jon Ellison 09-Mar-17 22:11
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 155 cladking 10-Mar-17 01:34
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 156 SandyJesse 11-Mar-17 02:15
Re: Interpretation vs Communication. 185 SandyJesse 10-Mar-17 00:31
In order to build the great pyramids... 155 Racho 10-Mar-17 01:14
Re: Imhotep 195 Corpuscles 08-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Imhotep 244 Martin Stower 08-Mar-17 19:15
Re: Imhotep 214 Origyptian 08-Mar-17 22:53
Re: Imhotep 174 Martin Stower 09-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Imhotep 161 Origyptian 09-Mar-17 03:35
Re: Imhotep 164 Jon Ellison 09-Mar-17 14:53
Re: Imhotep 129 Audrey 10-Mar-17 00:51
Re: Imhotep 191 Jon Ellison 10-Mar-17 03:42
Re: Imhotep 247 Audrey 11-Mar-17 06:22
Re: Imhotep 239 Martin Stower 11-Mar-17 11:22
Re: Imhotep 210 Audrey 12-Mar-17 02:40
Re: Imhotep 156 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 03:25
Re: Imhotep 178 Audrey 12-Mar-17 04:55
Re: Imhotep 233 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 13:14
Re: Imhotep 100 Warwick 13-Mar-17 16:12
Re: Imhotep 143 cladking 12-Mar-17 04:03
Re: Imhotep 151 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 04:07
Re: Imhotep 160 cladking 12-Mar-17 14:03
Re: Imhotep 143 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 15:10
Who Knew? 142 cladking 12-Mar-17 19:26
Re: Who Knew? 133 Warwick 13-Mar-17 16:05
Re: Imhotep 161 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 16:33
Re: Imhotep 199 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 16:53
Re: Imhotep 154 cladking 12-Mar-17 19:30
Re: Imhotep 174 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 07:03
Re: Imhotep 150 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 15:33
Re: Imhotep 126 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 18:13
Re: Imhotep 137 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Imhotep 180 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 19:33
Re: Imhotep 134 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 22:50
Re: Imhotep 146 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 23:24
Re: Imhotep 177 Corpuscles 12-Mar-17 23:44
Re: Imhotep 169 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Imhotep 152 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 00:26
Re: Imhotep 129 Warwick 13-Mar-17 13:53
Re: Imhotep 124 cladking 13-Mar-17 13:59
Re: Imhotep 145 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 14:16
Re: Imhotep 123 Warwick 13-Mar-17 14:26
Re: Imhotep 161 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 16:40
Re: Imhotep 115 Warwick 13-Mar-17 16:43
Re: Imhotep 152 cladking 13-Mar-17 17:18
Re: Imhotep 174 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 17:24
Re: Imhotep 136 cladking 13-Mar-17 18:26
Re: Imhotep 119 Warwick 13-Mar-17 18:42
Re: Imhotep 164 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 20:39
Re: Imhotep 103 Warwick 13-Mar-17 18:39
Re: Imhotep 168 Origyptian 11-Mar-17 14:03
Re: Imhotep 182 Merrell 11-Mar-17 14:29
Re: Imhotep 150 cladking 11-Mar-17 15:03
Re: Imhotep 130 Merrell 11-Mar-17 15:27
Re: Imhotep 158 cladking 11-Mar-17 15:35
Re: Imhotep 185 Merrell 11-Mar-17 16:15
Re: Imhotep 163 cladking 11-Mar-17 18:52
Re: Imhotep 134 Origyptian 11-Mar-17 15:53
Re: Imhotep 208 Thanos5150 11-Mar-17 17:27
Re: Imhotep 145 Warwick 11-Mar-17 17:43
Re: Imhotep 160 Origyptian 11-Mar-17 20:13
Re: Imhotep 160 Warwick 11-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Imhotep 173 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Imhotep 208 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 02:49
Re: Funerary Cult 183 Thunderbird 13-Mar-17 05:02
Re: Funerary Cult 124 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 21:31
Re: Funerary Cult 98 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 22:04
Re: Funerary Cult 101 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 22:30
Re: Funerary Cult 133 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 23:51
Re: Funerary Cult 61 Origyptian 14-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Funerary Cult 126 Martin Stower 14-Mar-17 09:23
Re: Funerary Cult 63 Origyptian 14-Mar-17 14:01
Re: Funerary Cult 123 Martin Stower 14-Mar-17 21:35
Re: Funerary Cult 88 Origyptian 14-Mar-17 23:55
Re: Funerary Cult 149 Martin Stower 15-Mar-17 01:24
Re: Funerary Cult 163 Origyptian 15-Mar-17 03:26
Re: Funerary Cult 101 Martin Stower 15-Mar-17 13:00
Re: Funerary Cult 173 Origyptian 15-Mar-17 13:34
Re: Funerary Cult 125 Martin Stower 15-Mar-17 14:32
Re: Funerary Cult 81 Origyptian 15-Mar-17 15:38
Re: Funerary Cult 85 Martin Stower 15-Mar-17 16:06
Re: Funerary Cult 99 Corpuscles 15-Mar-17 16:51
Re: Funerary Cult 52 Origyptian 15-Mar-17 17:08
Re: Funerary Cult 119 Martin Stower 15-Mar-17 19:24
Re: Funerary Cult 107 Merrell 15-Mar-17 21:40
Re: Funerary Cult 52 Origyptian 16-Mar-17 00:12
Re: Funerary Cult 119 Martin Stower 16-Mar-17 00:53
Re: Funerary Cult 46 Warwick 15-Mar-17 19:01
Re: Funerary Cult 94 eyeofhorus33 15-Mar-17 18:19
Re: Funerary Cult 64 Origyptian 15-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Funerary Cult 68 Martin Stower 15-Mar-17 21:27
Re: Funerary Cult 148 Martin Stower 15-Mar-17 21:48
Re: Funerary Cult 215 R Avry Wilson 16-Mar-17 02:08
Re: Funerary Cult 90 Warwick 15-Mar-17 18:48
Re: Funerary Cult 70 Origyptian 15-Mar-17 20:19
Re: Funerary Cult 147 Martin Stower 15-Mar-17 20:23
Re: Funerary Cult 46 Warwick 15-Mar-17 21:08
Re: Funerary Cult 88 Audrey 14-Mar-17 02:55
Re: Funerary Cult 112 Thanos5150 14-Mar-17 05:30
Re: Funerary Cult 96 Warwick 14-Mar-17 18:12
Re: Half cartouche. 61 Jon Ellison 14-Mar-17 12:14
Re: Half cartouche. 83 Martin Stower 14-Mar-17 12:43
Re: Half cartouche. 61 Jon Ellison 14-Mar-17 12:56
Re: Half cartouche. 43 Martin Stower 14-Mar-17 13:37
Re: Half cartouche. 94 Jon Ellison 14-Mar-17 13:42
Re: Half cartouche. 89 Martin Stower 14-Mar-17 15:00
Re: Half cartouche. 55 Jon Ellison 14-Mar-17 15:52
Re: Half cartouche. 98 Martin Stower 14-Mar-17 16:34
Re: Half cartouche. 204 Jon Ellison 14-Mar-17 17:19
Re: Half cartouche. 144 Martin Stower 14-Mar-17 20:07
Re: Half cartouche. 75 Jon Ellison 14-Mar-17 22:50
Re: Imhotep 115 Warwick 13-Mar-17 14:00
Re: Imhotep 106 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 14:10
Re: Imhotep 156 Merrell 13-Mar-17 15:22
Re: Imhotep 30 Warwick 13-Mar-17 15:30
Re: Imhotep 40 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 15:35
Re: Imhotep 87 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 15:51
Re: Imhotep 36 Warwick 13-Mar-17 15:58
Re: Imhotep 49 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 16:10
Re: Imhotep 68 Merrell 13-Mar-17 18:27
Re: Imhotep 93 Warwick 13-Mar-17 18:31
Re: Imhotep 79 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 18:40
Re: Imhotep 57 Warwick 13-Mar-17 18:48
Re: Imhotep 120 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 20:17
Re: Imhotep 42 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 16:50
Re: Imhotep 87 Warwick 13-Mar-17 16:57
Re: Imhotep 83 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 18:10
Re: Imhotep 32 Warwick 13-Mar-17 19:28
Re: Imhotep 76 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 19:54
Re: Imhotep 37 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 15:48
Re: Imhotep 125 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 16:28
Re: Imhotep 33 Warwick 13-Mar-17 16:40
Re: Imhotep 95 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 19:15
Re: Imhotep 47 Warwick 13-Mar-17 19:22
Re: Imhotep 33 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Imhotep 131 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 21:06
Re: Imhotep 39 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 21:29
Re: Imhotep 42 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 21:34
Re: Imhotep 90 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 22:01
Re: Imhotep 109 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Imhotep 39 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 23:43
Re: Imhotep 100 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 12:42
Re: Imhotep 41 Thanos5150 13-Mar-17 16:42
Re: Imhotep 104 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 15:02
Re: Imhotep 110 Martin Stower 11-Mar-17 21:07
Re: Imhotep 166 Thanos5150 11-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Imhotep 174 Martin Stower 11-Mar-17 22:12
Re: Imhotep 170 Audrey 12-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Imhotep 109 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Imhotep 141 Thanos5150 12-Mar-17 01:41
Re: Imhotep 132 Audrey 12-Mar-17 02:30
Re: Imhotep 159 Thanos5150 12-Mar-17 07:02
Re: Imhotep 117 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 08:49
Re: Imhotep 78 Thanos5150 12-Mar-17 16:52
Re: Imhotep 74 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 21:10
Re: Imhotep 46 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 22:02
Re: Imhotep 53 Origyptian 12-Mar-17 22:16
Re: Imhotep 73 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 23:51
Re: Imhotep 76 Origyptian 14-Mar-17 04:04
Re: Imhotep 51 Audrey 12-Mar-17 19:54
Re: Imhotep 72 Thanos5150 12-Mar-17 21:07
Re: Imhotep 103 Martin Stower 12-Mar-17 22:37
Re: Imhotep 65 Audrey 12-Mar-17 23:58
Re: Imhotep 118 Martin Stower 13-Mar-17 00:20
Papyri Wadi el-Jarf 74 Corpuscles 12-Mar-17 19:58
Re: Papyri Wadi el-Jarf 128 cladking 12-Mar-17 20:06
Re: Papyri Wadi el-Jarf 103 Corpuscles 12-Mar-17 21:07
Re: Papyri Wadi el-Jarf 39 cladking 12-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Papyri Wadi el-Jarf 54 Warwick 13-Mar-17 15:38
...In a Million Years. 125 cladking 13-Mar-17 17:36
Re: ...In a Million Years. 34 Warwick 13-Mar-17 17:57
Re: ...In a Million Years. 112 cladking 13-Mar-17 18:33
I will give you one last chance 36 Warwick 13-Mar-17 19:34
Re: I will give you one last chance 70 cladking 13-Mar-17 20:34
Re: ...In a Million Years. 55 Origyptian 13-Mar-17 20:10
Re: Papyri Wadi el-Jarf 89<