Mysteries :  The Official forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
eyeofhorus33 Wrote:
> Please provide the link so I might read how and
> why you convincingly debunked ramps.
> You claim in a response to Hanslune in this thread
> to have "posted it numerous times."
> I have lurked on this forum for years and cannot
> recall you ever doing so.
> Therefore, please will you post the link? I should
> like to read it as, I am sure, will other posters
> and lurkers.

Unfortunately the most recent and complete copy of the debunkment is on my old hard drive and that's sitting in a bowl on my desk with a few other parts from the old computer. But I found one here;


here's a copy and paste from the link;

Proof that ramps weren't used must wait for the powers that be to use 1970's technology to prove beyond doubt the route of the stones and mode of lifting. They are currently not seeking such information but a virtually air tight case can be made against ramps by observation and logic alone. While innumerable signs point away from ramps I'll try to limit the discussion to only the major points.

Historical accounts say that the stones moved to the pyramid 300' at a time after a priest attached a piece of paper to them. This is inconsistent with ramps. Indeed, there are no historical accounts until more recent times that involve ramps. Herodotus' description almost precisely matches the usage of counterweights. (they were shaped like the dorsal carapace of a grasshopper and composed of "short pieces of wood".) They were built in "battlements" (steps) and the lifting devices could be moved between them.

The culture has no word for "ramps" as applied to lifting objects. There is no such record for the use of this term. While they, no doubt, physically used ramps to lift objects the lack of the word is glaring omission. There is no "god of ramps" and not a single drawing of a ramp from the great pyramid building age.

Far more importantly is there is no overseer of ramp builders, ramp architects, or ramp dismantlers buried anywhere in Egypt. There are no overseers of basket makers, no overseers of harness makers or salve makers. There is not even a single stone dragger or his overseer in evidence. The pyramid town had equal numbers of men and women and was a tiny fraction of the size that would be required to drag stones and build ramps. The town is hardly large enough to supply such a large army with water and supplies far less do all the work themselves. It is little larger than a couple soccer fields. Indeed the builders' town was a mere 300' by 700'. By today's standards this would accomodate only 933 people in an office building. People need far more space where they live. Only about 40% of the population was men so there wouldn't even be nearly enough labor to supply food and water to the thousands necessary to build ramps and drag stones up them. You say ancient people didn't mind being cramped up. Modern sanitation and processes are more efficient than they were in 2750 BC but let's say they were willing to be jammed in cheek to jowel. This only increases occupancy to about 2800 men which is still grossly insufficient. With so many people in close contact disease would spread like wildfire. Since there were storage and production fascilities in the town as well it's highly improbable that there were numbers even approaching these levels.

Logic says that on a gargantuan project that a highly efficient means must be used. Ramps not only are hugely inefficient due to the high friction and high cost of building and dismantling ramps but also because the weight of the team dragging stones to the pyramid top is simply wasted as they walk back down on already constricted and overused ramps. Getting the manpower necessary to build this requires massive ramps because 55 HP being done by men at extraordinarily low efficiency requires vast numbers of men. They couldn't even see the pyramid to build it under the amount of ramping that would be needed to project so much power. Logic says it would be far easier to just drag stones up the side from the top. Friction is reduced to almost nothing since the route of the stones can be greased. The men don't have to lift their own weight and can pull much more effectively from a level surface. The concept that they must have used ramps is absurd when there are numerous better evidenced and easier means.

Maitaining this level of efficient power with muscles alone would require massive ramps and a means for the workers to get back down. Then there is the impossibility of cladding the structure with any possibly evidenced ramping system. Anything that required cladding stones as they went would leave nothing for ramps to adhere to and any other means would require the ramps to be rebuilt to apply the cladding.

Then comes the physical evidence which just puts a nail into the heart of the ramp ideas. Perhaps most glaringly is the utter lack of any evidence whatsoever for ramps on the pyramid. This wouldn’t be such a glaring void if not for the existence of numerous vertical lines visible in the pyramids. These lines tend to appear in pairs with one on opposite sides. This is consistent with counterweight operations where one line marks the counterweight and the opposite the route of the stones. It is most highly inconsistent with any ramping ideas. Simply stated ramps wouldn’t leave such lines no matter how they were configured except for ones that can be ruled out by logic such as integral ramps. The grooves on the Great Pyramid are also these routes of the stones that the builders called the “ladders of the Gods”.

Simply stated you can see the routes of the stones right up the middles and in two places above the boat museum. You can also see that these pyramids are five step (battlement) pyramids on some pictures but especially in the gravimetric scan half way down the page here;


I have a truly beautiful depiction of these five steps drawn on the scan but can't get permission to use it. But this is still conclusive proof that it's a five step pyramid which is more than adequate to debunk ramps. They would not have used steps unless it was necessary and the only reason steps might be necessary is that they could lift the stones only 81' 3" at a time.

Each of the great pyramids after Djoser’s were five step pyramids. There is simply no reason to build these as step pyramids unless the height of each step defined the height they were able to lift stones. In order to lift stones to the top they must have needed to be relayed the greatest distance they could lift. Of course this could be as simple as the length of the ropes by which they lifted them up the side. No matter the actual reason it simply isn’t consistent with ramps. It is highly consistent with counterweights and using water for ballast since the geyser sprayed 80’ and this is the height of the steps. It might be consistent with locks that lifted 81' 3" at a time or any water or ballast lifting system limited by natural laws or infrastruture/ materiel concerns. It is not consistent with ramps.

Ramps can’t explain the various infrastructure all around and within the pyramid. They are inconsistent with the history, culture, logic, physical evidence, and the evidence left by the actual on-site builders.

Perhaps the greatest inconsistency is the cultural evidence right on site. In the pyramid builders cemetery is the “Overseer of the Boats of Neith”. This would be the loader on the south side in all probability but it could have nothing to do with ramps. There are canal overseers, overseers of metal shops, director of draftsmen, inspector of craftsmen, controller of a boat crew, controller of the side of the pyramid, inspector of metal workers and a host of other jobs that reflect a sophisticated and intelligent culture. Most tellingly is that there is a “Weigher/ Reckoner”. This job would be critical on a device that was said to be sensitive enough to tell the difference in weight of a “heavy heart” from a feather. They found a standard weight in the queens “air siphon” and a hook.

In point of fact there simply isn’t anything consistent with ramps. While the evidence isn’t deep it is very broad that counterweights were used and the vertical lines on the great pyramids are simply sufficient to say ramps are debunked. This scale is tipped so much you’d think there’s nothing on the ascender at all. There were no ramps. They are debunked.

It is a little out of date and doesn't include everything I've learned since 2013. For instance I found the quarry workers' titles. I believe every point stands though the picture of the routes of the stone might well be depicting something else. People have made some good arguments about the nature of several of the vertical lines I interpret as routes for stone. Also it should be mentioned that the recent testing closes the door on the concept of internal ramps and is fully supportive of my theory and the location and nature of the Mafdet Lynx under the NE corner. They did not use ramps and it has been shown that stones were pulled straight up the sides of five step pyramids one step at a time.

Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.

Options: ReplyQuote

Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Water Canals? 1040 Steve Clayton 18-Feb-17 05:21
Re: Giza Water Canals? 286 Steve Clayton 18-Feb-17 17:46
Re: Giza Water Canals? 389 Dr. Troglodyte 21-Feb-17 20:55
Re: Giza Water Canals? 230 Warwick 21-Feb-17 21:08
Re: Giza Water Canals? 194 cladking 21-Feb-17 21:33
Re: Giza Water Canals? 299 Dr. Troglodyte 21-Feb-17 23:16
Re: Giza Water Canals? 401 cladking 22-Feb-17 04:20
Re: Giza Water Canals? 247 Steve Clayton 22-Feb-17 15:36
Re: Giza Water Canals? 229 cladking 22-Feb-17 20:32
Re: Giza Water Canals? 292 Hanslune 22-Feb-17 21:39
Re: Giza Water Canals? 277 cladking 23-Feb-17 01:22
Cladking makes up stuff - come see 328 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 01:30
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 278 cladking 23-Feb-17 01:45
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 271 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 19:01
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 357 eyeofhorus33 23-Feb-17 20:15
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 228 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 20:48
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 350 cladking 23-Feb-17 21:10
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 276 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 21:15
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 275 cladking 23-Feb-17 21:55
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 265 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 22:12
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 276 cladking 23-Feb-17 22:26
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 278 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 22:31
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 291 cladking 24-Feb-17 16:49
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 260 cladking 24-Feb-17 17:05
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 283 cladking 23-Feb-17 20:44
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 352 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 21:56
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 322 cladking 23-Feb-17 22:18
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 204 cladking 23-Feb-17 22:22
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 203 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 22:45
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 270 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 22:44
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 282 cladking 23-Feb-17 23:13
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 290 Steve Clayton 23-Feb-17 20:45
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 266 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 20:59
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 257 Steve Clayton 23-Feb-17 23:02
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 278 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 23:10
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 377 Steve Clayton 24-Feb-17 00:21
Re: Cladking makes up stuff - come see 310 cladking 23-Feb-17 21:21
abstract plus. 316 cladking 23-Feb-17 21:06
Re: abstract plus. 502 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 22:05
Re: abstract plus. 234 cladking 23-Feb-17 22:47
Re: abstract plus. 277 Hanslune 23-Feb-17 22:59
Re: abstract plus. 253 cladking 23-Feb-17 23:26
Re: abstract plus. 264 eyeofhorus33 24-Feb-17 19:19
Re: abstract plus. 307 cladking 24-Feb-17 21:52
One step at a time... 446 Steve Clayton 24-Feb-17 22:56
Re: One step at a time... 305 cladking 25-Feb-17 00:16
Re: One step at a time... 203 Steve Clayton 25-Feb-17 02:00
Re: Giza Water Canals? 268 Hanslune 22-Feb-17 04:27
Re: Giza Water Canals? 269 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Feb-17 15:27
Re: Giza Water Canals? 228 cladking 22-Feb-17 20:36
Re: Giza Water Canals? 243 Hanslune 22-Feb-17 21:28
Re: Giza Water Canals? 390 Steve Clayton 22-Feb-17 13:07
Re: Giza Water Canals? 512 Steve Clayton 22-Feb-17 14:11
Re: Giza Water Canals? 384 SandyJesse 26-Feb-17 00:07

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.