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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Origyptian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > Lifting one cover stone a foot or two and sliding
> > wood planks into the pit is a far cry from the
> > effort, knowledge, and resources required to build G1.
>
> But they didn't just "lift one block a foot or
> two"-they moved all the blocks into position. How
> do we know this? Because the the blocks are
> covered with quarry marks on multiple sides,
> including hieroglyphs, as well as the fact the
> blocks are sealed with mortar between the
> blocks. To quote Jenkins:
>
>
Quote

Marks made by the ancient quarrymen are
> still visible on many of the stones, hieroglyphs
> scrawled in red and yellow ochre and in lampblack.

The vast majority of painted marks could have been applied on exposed surfaces after completion of construction without ever moving any block other than 1 or 2 entry blocks (see below).



> They have the hasty and abbreviated look of
> foremen's instructions about how the stones were
> to be quarried. The marks apparently include
> references to measurements in cubits (the ancient
> Egyptian cubit was the equivalent of 52.3 cm)
,
> as well as the royal cartouche of Djedefre, the
> son of Cheops, the same cartouche that Mallakh had
> identified when he first uncovered the stones.
> With the exception of Djedefre's cartouche, which
> was already well known, the marks have not been
> identified. Further study may reveal more about
> ancient quarrying techniques. One thing the marks
> have established is the position of Djedefre in
> the Fourth Dynasty king-list: it seems certain
> that if he were the one to bury Cheops, he must
> logically have been Cheops' successor.

None of the major dimensions of the 1st boat pit show any indication of the use of a 52.3cm Egyptian cubit. Regarding the "hasty and abbreviated look", see my comment further down...



> From another source:
>
Quote

Eighteen cartouches bearing the name of
> King Dedefre, the builder of the incomplete
> Pyramid at Abu-Roash were found among the quarry
> marks on the upper surfaces of blocks Nos.
> 15, 19, 20, 23, 30, 34, 35 and 40, the lower
> surfaces of blocks
Nos. 5, 7, 9 and 20, the
> northern sides of blocks Nos. 34 and 38,
> and the eastern sides of blocks Nos. 5 and 33 (PI.
> XI, A).

What's ironic is that with all the bolding you've done, you missed the key point: "eastern sides".

It's easy to paint glyphs on the top, bottom, and north and south sides of those blocks while they're all still in situ (assuming 1 or 2 were lifted at one end to gain access to the pit). But there are 2 blocks that are reported to have glyphs painted on the eastern sides which might not have been possible if those blocks were already mortared to their eastern neighbors. And so I'd be very interested in whether those blocks were sticking up significantly farther than the neighboring blocks to the east and/or whether they can be more easily lifted than the others, and also where on the eastern surface those glyphs were found. For example, the investigators claim that the blocks were mortared together, so how did they see the glyphs if they were covered with mortar? Were all the joints not mortared? Were those glyphs painted onto the exposed surfaces of those 2 blocks (e.g, if they were taller than their neighbors)? We really cannot make assumptions about those glyphs based on that level of reporting.

By the way, what information do you think the presence of those glyphs conveys? Jenkins shows a selection of triangular painted graphics that had not yet been translated at the time of her printing. Has anyone translated them yet? If not, what's the problem?



> So they put quarry marks all over these blocks
> because they lifted "one stone" a foot and slid
> the pieces of the boat in? There is no doubt the
> AE placed the boat and the blocks.

Thanos, I get it, there is no doubt in your mind. I see other possibilities in the geometry and physics, and I see written documentation that's devoid of sufficient details about the physical evidence found in that investigation. If we disagree, I'm ok with that, but I see more possibilities than the traditional narrative.



> > I've never disagreed that copper/bronze can be
> > used to quarry the relatively smaller, softer,
> > local limestone slabs (not Aswan granite or the
> > 100+ ton cyclopean limestone beasts, e.g., at the
> > valley temple), lift it a few feet, and haul it on
> > sleds over relatively short distances.
>
> These are 15-20 blocks. The average block size of
> G1 is 2.5 tons. And I said before if you can lift
> a 20 ton block a few feet you can certainly lift a
> 2.5 ton block 4-5ft-the height of the courses of
> G1 which comprise what-99% of the blocks?

That's a forced analogy. The technology and effort required to create and position those boat pit blocks is trivial compared to what's required to build all those megalithic pyramids within that alleged 200 year span. And what's your explanation for the remaining "1%"? And by the way, the "2.5 ton" is "average" which means 50% of them were more than 2.5 tons, and many were much heavier than 15 tons, many weighing as much as 80 tons and made of granite placed 160' above ground level.

Nevertheless, based on the evidence I've seen so far, the geometry of the southern boat pits indicate other possibilities besides an "indisputable" 4th dynasty provenance.



> > But I think it unlikely the OK
> > would embark on such a boat pit project.
>
> They obviously did exactly such things:
> [s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com]
>
> Or are you going to argue this is not a boat pit?

Of course I am, or at least I'm going to continue arguing that there's no proof it was originally designed to be a boat pit. Do you believe they must have been boat pits simply because the walls are tapered? That's a very big stretch in logic, in my opinion. It reminds me of when so many people mischaracterized the shafts in the QC as being "air shafts" when they seem to really be no such thing, any more than the QC has anything to do with a "queen" and the KC has anything to do with a "king" (other than the traditional inferences drawn in modern times based on roof geometry).



> Yes, the southern pits are different in shape
> which does suggest they may have had a different
> function originally, but the fact is the AE buried
> boats inside of them and covered them with dozens
> of 15-20 blocks nonetheless. Why waste a perfectly
> good trench just to build another for a boat that
> will easily fit?

So you're acknowledging that those southern pits may indeed have already been there for the dynastics to repurpose after their original construction, and so they may in fact not have been originally designed to house boats. I can accept as "possibility" (not yet "fact" though) that the dynastics reused that "perfectly good trench" that they found there. But I see no reason to accept as "fact" that those cover stones were not already installed in place as well. Otherwise, what purpose would you attribute to such a rectangular "perfectly good trench" found without a cover?

It's been suggested earlier in this discussion that the boats had to have been "buried" in an open pit because of the requirement of a religious ceremony. Not only is that speculation, it contradicts the "why waste a perfectly good trench" if the ceremony also required the trench to be tapered as are the others. Likewise, if the OK were able to hew a 60'-100' deep shaft which terminates in a chamber deep in the bedrock for various matabas and funerary storage (e.g., Hetepheres), the same could have been done for boats which would have secured them as undetected and sealed from the environment far more easier than what's been found there.



> > On the other hand, prying one or two end
> > stones loose from the mortar and wedging it up 12"
> > so that the boat parts could be loaded by humans
> > into the pit would not be impossible for the OK
> > bronze agers.
>
> Nor would digging the pit in the first place and
> covering them with dozens of 15-20 blocks as we
> know they did. I find it silly that the most you
> are willing to allow these primitive "stinky
> footed bumpkins" is the ability to barely lift
> just one block a mere 12" so they could have just
> enough room (in your uninformed opinion) to slide
> in over 1200 ship components some of which were
> 75ft long weighing at least 1 ton.

It might be silly, but it's not what I said. I never said all they could do was "barely lift just one block a mere 12 inches", I said that's all they needed to do since the pit and cover stones may already have been there when the dynastics arrived on the scene.

Why do you believe they would have trouble sliding pieces of cedar that are up to 1 ton and 75' long into that pit?



> Not only that,
> they were also able to place the boat with great
> care in order of assembly through this 12" hole
> and while they were at it drew quarry marks all
> over the blocks on multiple sides for blocks you
> claim they did not even quarry.

The painting of glyph instructions for quarrying the dozens 15 ton cover stones was "hasty and abbreviated", and yet the wooden parts were placed "with great care"? Perhaps they only appeared hasty and abbreviated because of the awkwardness of painting into the relatively narrow spaces on the north and south side, or with the limited lighting on the underside once the workers entered the pit through an end breach.

And I didn't say it would have been a 12 inch "hole". If they were able to lift an entire end block, the breach could be a 1' high (or more) entry point that spanned the entire width of the pit. Plenty of room to fit a work group that could insert and place all that wood "with great care" within the 32m long, 3.3m deep pit.

I don't know what your point is about emphasizing "with great care". The parts were stacked directly on top of each other with barely a layer of fabric inserted between every other layer. Other than half a handful of small limestone blocks, no shelving or structural supports were used to position the wood components. As a result, the bottom layers essentially turned into dust due to the pressure and mosture over the millennia. There was no diagram in the pit indicating how to assemble the parts of the 1st boat pit, so Hag tried 4 different reconstruction arrangements before he settled on the final version, and there still were parts left over. Meanwhile, the alleged rope lashings were found piled in a rat's nest disarray and not placed in any orderly fashion whatsoever, let alone with great care:



As I said, no torches were used since any stray cinder would have torched the place. The fact is, what was found in the pit could have been inserted there by a handful of men in low reflected lighting after lifting one or two blocks toward one end of the pit.



> > I believe it would be easy to slide a 75' plank
> > into the 3m deep, 32m long pit through a 1'
> > opening made by lifting an end block with copper
> > prybars and wood support wedges.
>
> The point is moot as we know they did not do this,
> but it is impossible as you are describing it
> regardless. Think about it-you are trying to slide
> in a one ton 75ft long piece of wood at ground
> level though a 1ft hole into a chamber barely 10ft
> deep. You would have to dig a long deep trench
> leading to the hole to create sufficient angle to
> get it into the chamber. I'm sure some brainiac
> out there can do the math.

A long trench leading to the hole is unnecessary. The geometry is such that a 23m piece of wood can fit easily into a 32m, 3.3m deep pit if only 1 or 2 blocks were lifted at one end. If the wood is curved (such as a piece of the hull), all the more likely only a single block needed to be lifted, especially adjacent to the small "ramp" at the end of the pit reported by M&R which may have been created to increase the size of the opening once the end block was lifted - otherwise, making such a "ramp" on an incline into the pit doesn't makes little sense:




> > I see no need to
> > hew a separate long ramp as you described.
>
> Well, you would regardless, but this comment was
> directed to your question of why did they not just
> bury the boat in one piece which to do so, of
> course, you would have to cut a long deep trench.

I never meant that the boat would be "buried" in one piece. I was thinking that it would be installed directly into G1 in one piece. That could have been a lot easier since it precludes the needs to construct the pit and to also quarry, shape, transport, and position the cover stones, and it also reduces the amount of masonry needed in G1 since it would include another large empty cavity akin to the GG. I understand there might be a reason to not actually install the ship into G1 while the king was still alive, but they certainly could have brought the wooden components into G1 and then reassembled it in place as part of the funerary proceedings. Otherwise, why go rogue only with boats and specifically preclude them from joining the rest of the funerary deposit? For that matter, why mention "Djedefre" 18 times in the first boat pit without a single mention of Khufu if Djedefre really did construct those pits for his dad in memoriam?



> > I do see a very short ramp at one end of the pit which
> > could have been used to facilitate the installment
> > of wooden parts into the pit from that end.
>
> I don't and regardless it does not matter as the
> quarry marks are incontrovertible proof they did not.

The ramp is there (see the above illustration).
What do the quarry marks say that incontrovertibly prove to you how the wooden parts were installed into the pit?



> > I highly doubt they would bring torches with them
> > into the pit for fear of turning the wood into a
> > bonfire with each falling cinder from the torch.
>
>
> Well, good luck for them getting in your 12" hole
> in the first place-but of course they would need
> torches. In your scenario there would be workers
> inside this pit for hours at a time responsible
> for perfectly placing all the boat parts in order
> not to mention drawing all of the quarry marks on
> the underside of all those blocks they didn't
> actually quarry.

For that matter, where are all the torch marks in the subterranean chamber and passage in G1 or any other pyramid with excavations into bedrock? I'm quite sure workers were down in the bowels of the pyramid FAR longer than what it took to hew the southern boat pit, and yet no ancient torch marks are seen as an artifact of the original construction (not to mention how they were able to breath amidst all that dust and a narrow 150' long tunnel up to the surface as their sole air supply).

Meanwhile, it's well accepted that the OK had the wherewithal to develop rudimentary light reflectors, e.g., made of polished stone or copper sheets (the latter having the advantage of being able to easily focus the light). And so it certainly was highly likely that the 4th Dynasty was able to direct light through a 1' tall, 7' wide opening into an otherwise covered pit located right there at the surface of the bedrock.



> > I also disagree with your assessment of the effort
> > to hew a "gallery" cave vs. the open pit with cover slabs.
>
> To carve a cave you have to have a vertical
> surface to cut into in the first place, like a
> hill, which there is not next to the pyrmaids. And
> regardless, we know for a fact they did not want
> to do this for boat burials which they obviously
> wanted as close to the pyramid as possible.

It's only "obvious" if you already subscribe to your stated perspective which has not yet actually been proven. By stating it's "obvious", or "incontrovertible", or definitely intended to house a boat only shows a bias to make the narrative self-consistent without considering the true limitations and ambiguities of the evidence.



> Again: [s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com]
>
> The effort to make this boat pit was not much less
> if not equal to the southern pits given the extra
> craftsmanship required to shape it yet they did
> not think it "easier" or "better" to cut a gallery
> out of a hillside and obviously choose to cut a
> trench right there on the plateau just like all of
> the other boat pits.

And perhaps that's because the southern pits were built before the dynastic period and we never originally intended to house any boat in the first place. Besides which, I am skeptical that the 2 southern, if any, pits were originally designed to house any funerary boats.



> We do not need to wonder or
> make things up that are not there as we can see
> exactly how they made these boats pits right at
> this very location which every single one are
> trenches, not galleries.

So then why "make up" the notion that those tapered pits were originally intended to house boats? Why "make up" the notion that only boats were relegated to the back of the bus (ie, not included with the rest of the funerary deposit)? And why would the southern boats not be included within, rather than under, the confines of the perimeter wall demarcating the funerary domain?



> > Although some wooden planks are scratched leaving
> > the appearance that they once were used as
> > functioning boats, I do not believe the
> > reconstructed boat would actually float.
>
> So was this just a copy of something from the LC
> they did not understand but made one just like it
> anyways? Then they found this weird trench they
> were able to lift one block 12" and bury it in
> complete darkness and just for the fun of it drew
> quarry marks all over the blocks to pretend like
> they quarried them when they really didn't? Sounds
> perfectly reasonable.
>
> So they made this highly complex ship just like
> all of their other ships yet this could not
> actually float like the other ships:
> [www.touregypt.net]
> [s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com]
>
> The Abydos boats as well as others were found
> using the same system so I guess they were all
> fake boats which they pictured themselves sailing
> in fake boats, making fake boats, talking about
> their adventures and trades in the fake boats
> which all just so happened to be just like the
> actual boats.
>
> Herodotus:
>
Quote

Their boats with which they carry cargoes
> are made of the thorny acacia, of which the form
> is very like that of the Kyrenian lotos, and that
> which exudes from it is gum. From this tree they
> cut pieces of wood about two cubits in length and
> arrange them like bricks, fastening the boat
> together by running a great number of long bolts
> through the two-cubits pieces; and when they have
> thus fastened the boat together, they lay
> cross-pieces over the top, using no ribs for the
> sides; and within they caulk the seams with
> papyrus. They make one steering-oar for it, which
> is passed through the bottom of the boat; and they
> have a mast of acacia and sails of papyrus. These
> boats cannot sail up the river unless there be a
> very fresh wind blowing, but are towed from the
> shore: from this acacia tree they cut planks 3
> feet long, which they put together like courses of
> brick, building up the hull as follows: they
> joined these three foot lengths together with long
> close set dowels; when they have built up the hull
> in this fashion they stretch cross beams over
> them. They use no ribs, and they caulk the seams
> from the inside, using papyrus....
>
> Another fairy tale from ancient historians I presume.

Apparently yes, since the vast majority of wood found in boat pits is Lebanese cedar and not acacia, and his description of the construction doesn't seem to apply to what we see assembled from the wood from the first boat pit.



> ...
> > There are far too many unexplained enigmas about
> > the pit and the wooden parts that prevent me from
> > jumping to the conclusion that those pits were
> > definitely designed originally as boat graves.
>
> There are no "enigmas" regarding the boat's
> functionality and regardless of what the two
> southern pits were made for originally there is
> zero doubt they ended up being used as boat pits
> covered by dozens of 15-20 blocks quarried moved
> and placed by the Dynastic Egyptians. This is the
> point of the OP.

And I disagree. The southern pits are loaded to the gills with enigmas.

I'm simply trying to assess possibilities that are supported, and not contradicted, by the evidence, and there seems to be more than one viable paradigm. But how does one objectively assess the likelihood of each component within each paradigm without falling into the "associative" trap which may be based on faulty presumptions at the outset?

Meanwhile, I'd love to find more details about the paint marks. I am unaware of any translation of those marks (other than discussed above) found inside either southern boat pit.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12-Sep-16 15:23 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 4142 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 03:30
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 726 eyeofhorus33 04-Sep-16 06:28
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 655 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 19:18
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 715 Jon Ellison 04-Sep-16 08:53
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 706 DUNE 04-Sep-16 10:12
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 678 Jon Ellison 04-Sep-16 10:24
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 690 DUNE 04-Sep-16 10:53
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 602 DUNE 04-Sep-16 11:22
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 690 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 18:16
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 607 DUNE 04-Sep-16 18:23
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 620 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 18:40
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 632 cladking 04-Sep-16 21:02
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 524 Jon Ellison 04-Sep-16 21:40
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 651 Thanos5150 05-Sep-16 06:09
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 572 Thanos5150 05-Sep-16 16:24
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 648 Jon Ellison 05-Sep-16 17:14
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 542 cladking 05-Sep-16 22:10
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 661 Jon Ellison 04-Sep-16 11:26
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 679 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 17:03
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 478 Steve Clayton 04-Sep-16 18:25
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 620 Steve Clayton 04-Sep-16 18:55
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 582 cladking 04-Sep-16 20:21
Boats R Us 501 DScribr 07-Sep-16 16:16
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 590 jamesglory 08-Sep-16 06:06
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 519 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 18:09
Re: Khufu's Boats used in their Pits 550 DScribr 09-Sep-16 18:53
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 610 jamesglory 16-Sep-16 05:45
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 594 jamesglory 26-Sep-16 13:22
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 500 cladking 26-Sep-16 14:17
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 469 Thanos5150 27-Sep-16 00:17
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 641 jamesglory 27-Sep-16 06:43
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 625 Thanos5150 27-Sep-16 17:53
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 499 DUNE 15-Oct-16 10:58
Khufu I/Block 20 418 Dr. Troglodyte 15-Oct-16 18:13
Re: Khufu I/Block 20 520 Thanos5150 15-Oct-16 21:40
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 516 Origyptian 18-Oct-16 00:02
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 507 DUNE 18-Oct-16 07:56
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 540 Thanos5150 18-Oct-16 16:50
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 433 DUNE 18-Oct-16 17:00
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 574 Thanos5150 18-Oct-16 17:36
Re: Khufu's Boats-to be built by others..... 600 DScribr 07-Sep-16 16:07
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 630 cladking 04-Sep-16 20:26
Re: Water erosion 725 Thunderbird 05-Sep-16 14:36
Re: Water erosion 525 Thanos5150 05-Sep-16 16:18
Re: Water erosion 649 Steve Clayton 05-Sep-16 16:50
Re: Water erosion 476 Thanos5150 05-Sep-16 17:46
Re: Water erosion 595 Steve Clayton 05-Sep-16 22:12
Re: Water erosion 531 Steve Clayton 05-Sep-16 16:58
Re: Water erosion 506 eyeofhorus33 05-Sep-16 17:29
Re: Water erosion 569 Merrell 05-Sep-16 17:46
Re:Control the conversation.....tantrum. ... 586 Thunderbird 05-Sep-16 20:14
Re: Re:Control the conversation.....tantrum. ... 589 Martin Stower 05-Sep-16 20:55
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 561 Thunderbird 06-Sep-16 04:57
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 592 Martin Stower 06-Sep-16 21:06
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 504 cladking 06-Sep-16 21:51
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 620 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-16 21:56
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 593 Martin Stower 06-Sep-16 23:21
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 519 cladking 07-Sep-16 00:11
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 407 DScribr 07-Sep-16 16:23
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 536 cladking 07-Sep-16 19:07
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 527 DScribr 08-Sep-16 01:17
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 548 cladking 08-Sep-16 13:39
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 520 Origyptian 08-Sep-16 23:56
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 458 cladking 09-Sep-16 00:52
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 472 Martin Stower 06-Sep-16 23:13
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 683 cladking 07-Sep-16 00:17
Stream of Consciousness 574 eyeofhorus33 06-Sep-16 19:33
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 555 Origyptian 06-Sep-16 12:55
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 517 cladking 06-Sep-16 14:03
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 521 Steve Clayton 06-Sep-16 17:28
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 498 Origyptian 06-Sep-16 18:08
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 497 Steve Clayton 07-Sep-16 12:40
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 504 cladking 07-Sep-16 14:19
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 544 Origyptian 06-Sep-16 18:23
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 520 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-16 18:34
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 538 Origyptian 06-Sep-16 19:16
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 529 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-16 23:38
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 770 Thanos5150 06-Sep-16 23:41
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 518 Steve Clayton 07-Sep-16 14:17
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 494 cladking 07-Sep-16 14:42
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 540 Steve Clayton 07-Sep-16 15:46
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 565 cladking 07-Sep-16 16:24
Galleries :: Graves 591 Dr. Troglodyte 08-Sep-16 23:33
Re: Galleries :: Graves 561 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 00:01
Re: Galleries :: Graves 748 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 03:32
Re: Galleries :: Graves 526 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 13:21
Re: Galleries :: Graves 487 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 16:52
Re: Galleries :: Graves 661 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 19:00
Re: Galleries :: Graves 533 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 21:54
Re: Galleries :: Graves 521 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 23:01
Re: Galleries :: Graves 536 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 23:27
Re: Galleries :: Graves 510 Origyptian 10-Sep-16 05:50
Re: Galleries :: Graves 581 Thanos5150 10-Sep-16 06:01
Re: Galleries :: Graves 544 Origyptian 10-Sep-16 17:29
Re: Galleries :: Graves 668 Thanos5150 10-Sep-16 21:06
Re: Galleries :: Graves 548 cladking 10-Sep-16 21:30
Re: Galleries :: Graves 642 Origyptian 12-Sep-16 15:06
Re: Galleries :: Graves 574 Thunderbird 12-Sep-16 15:36
Re: Galleries :: Graves 484 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 01:41
Re: Galleries :: Graves 547 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 02:27
Re: Galleries :: Graves 559 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 04:27
Re: Galleries :: Graves 676 Morten 13-Sep-16 09:05
Thanks for the link 511 DScribr 13-Sep-16 15:04
Re: Galleries :: Graves 581 DScribr 13-Sep-16 15:01
Re: Galleries :: Graves 481 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 17:03
Boat Graves-one answer. 556 DScribr 13-Sep-16 17:27
Re: Galleries :: Graves 450 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 02:57
Re: Galleries :: Graves 527 cladking 09-Sep-16 03:25
Close enough 545 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:02
Re: Close enough 443 cladking 09-Sep-16 21:03
Re: Close enough 552 DScribr 10-Sep-16 00:33
Re: Close enough 547 cladking 10-Sep-16 01:09
Re: Galleries :: Graves 513 Dr. Troglodyte 09-Sep-16 15:43
Re: Galleries :: Graves 492 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 18:02
It wasn't 556 DScribr 07-Sep-16 16:06
Re: It wasn't 581 Origyptian 08-Sep-16 23:45
At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 530 DScribr 09-Sep-16 01:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 539 Martin Stower 09-Sep-16 12:55
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists!!! 513 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:05
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 498 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 13:06
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 546 Martin Stower 09-Sep-16 14:16
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 512 cladking 09-Sep-16 14:35
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 604 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 19:22
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 522 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-16 20:10
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 572 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 21:41
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 579 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 22:17
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 537 Origyptian 10-Sep-16 16:01
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 540 Thanos5150 10-Sep-16 21:39
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 601 DScribr 11-Sep-16 02:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 483 Thanos5150 12-Sep-16 03:27
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 658 Origyptian 12-Sep-16 01:10
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 519 Thanos5150 12-Sep-16 03:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 558 cladking 12-Sep-16 03:32
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 547 Origyptian 12-Sep-16 17:48
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 541 Martin Stower 12-Sep-16 20:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 513 cladking 12-Sep-16 20:49
Re: Shred of evidence : ) 550 Thunderbird 12-Sep-16 21:19
Re: Shred of evidence : ) 529 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 00:00
Sphinx 538 DScribr 13-Sep-16 00:43
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 557 Thanos5150 12-Sep-16 21:04
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 510 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 00:21
Mainstream evidence still exists.... 447 DScribr 13-Sep-16 00:46
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 498 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 04:01
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 499 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 04:31
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 486 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 13:27
Ergo, Adaption! 396 DScribr 13-Sep-16 15:33
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 460 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 15:52
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 515 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 16:47
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 451 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 16:01
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 509 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 16:58
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 448 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 18:15
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 488 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 19:01
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 482 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 19:05
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 500 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 00:38
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 462 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 02:24
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 429 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 16:05
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 499 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 16:32
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 517 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 19:10
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 499 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 20:19
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 479 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 22:10
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 502 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 22:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 499 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 02:12
Overruled!!! 404 DScribr 14-Sep-16 03:12
Re: Overruled!!! 536 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 03:02
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 464 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 12:19
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 488 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 17:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 504 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 22:17
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 481 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 22:22
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 495 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 22:39
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 544 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 22:51
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 532 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 00:55
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 491 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 22:30
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 409 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 22:37
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 519 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 22:32
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 448 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 23:51
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 516 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 00:56
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 435 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 01:33
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 520 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 02:34
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 488 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 12:00
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 518 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 03:30
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 501 Origyptian 15-Sep-16 15:16
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 484 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 18:39
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 492 Origyptian 15-Sep-16 22:36
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 490 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 23:17
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 523 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 23:34
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 408 Origyptian 16-Sep-16 20:37
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 580 Martin Stower 16-Sep-16 23:52
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 520 DScribr 17-Sep-16 00:45
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 594 Jon Ellison 17-Sep-16 07:45
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 499 Martin Stower 17-Sep-16 15:56
A polite and academic style of writing. 462 DScribr 17-Sep-16 21:35
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 488 Origyptian 17-Sep-16 15:25
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 524 Martin Stower 17-Sep-16 16:16
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 474 Origyptian 17-Sep-16 17:59
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 519 Martin Stower 17-Sep-16 20:57
MS and DScribr are really the same person!!!.......Film @ 11. 524 DScribr 17-Sep-16 21:46
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 513 Origyptian 17-Sep-16 22:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 455 Martin Stower 18-Sep-16 00:27
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 498 Thanos5150 18-Sep-16 00:52
Misleading still exists... 491 DScribr 18-Sep-16 01:26
Re: Misleading still exists... 468 randompHactor 18-Sep-16 02:45
Re: Misleading still exists... 480 Barbelo 18-Sep-16 11:32
Re: Misleading still exists... 513 DScribr 18-Sep-16 13:55
Re: Misleading still exists... 471 randompHactor 18-Sep-16 15:16
Re: Misleading still exists... 370 DScribr 18-Sep-16 19:30
Re: Misleading still exists... 478 Origyptian 18-Sep-16 20:46
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 473 Origyptian 19-Sep-16 18:45
Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 441 DScribr 17-Sep-16 21:40
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 512 Origyptian 18-Sep-16 20:53
Re: STILL Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 626 DScribr 19-Sep-16 00:41
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 529 Origyptian 19-Sep-16 17:50
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 372 cladking 19-Sep-16 18:06
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 403 DScribr 20-Sep-16 12:06
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 567 cladking 20-Sep-16 14:29
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 489 Jon Ellison 20-Sep-16 16:46
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 547 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:34
They were sealed during the late 4th D. 537 DScribr 20-Sep-16 17:23
Re: They were sealed during the late 4th D. 427 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:44
Re: They were sealed during the late 4th D. 587 Jon Ellison 24-Sep-16 20:03
Re: They were sealed during the late 4th D. 484 Origyptian 25-Sep-16 03:52
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 479 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:29
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 486 Thanos5150 17-Sep-16 18:01
Mainstream evidence exists... 525 DScribr 17-Sep-16 21:49
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 493 Origyptian 17-Sep-16 21:56
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 492 Thanos5150 17-Sep-16 23:53
Summary perspective of el-Jarf 437 Origyptian 19-Sep-16 20:30
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 511 Martin Stower 19-Sep-16 22:55
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 497 Thanos5150 19-Sep-16 23:40
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 519 Corpuscles 20-Sep-16 00:43
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 504 Thanos5150 20-Sep-16 02:05
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 484 Corpuscles 20-Sep-16 23:50
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 497 cladking 21-Sep-16 00:38
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 478 Origyptian 20-Sep-16 05:09
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 550 Martin Stower 20-Sep-16 10:10
'The Truth' 502 DScribr 20-Sep-16 12:20
Re: 'The Truth' 410 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:31
Re: 'The Truth' 522 Martin Stower 24-Sep-16 00:41
Re: 'The Truth' 517 Origyptian 24-Sep-16 17:11
Re: 'The Truth' 493 Martin Stower 24-Sep-16 19:21
Re: 'The Truth' 523 Origyptian 25-Sep-16 04:13
Re: 'The Truth' 530 Martin Stower 25-Sep-16 13:30
Re: 'The Truth' 480 Origyptian 25-Sep-16 15:45
Re: 'The Truth' 472 Martin Stower 25-Sep-16 18:15
Re: 'The Truth' 456 Origyptian 25-Sep-16 18:35
Re: 'The Truth' 457 Martin Stower 25-Sep-16 19:09
Tallet Misrepresented by Ori.......... 481 DScribr 20-Sep-16 12:18
Perspective vs Fact 447 DScribr 20-Sep-16 12:12
Re: Perspective vs Fact 461 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:28
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 479 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 23:20
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 496 DScribr 16-Sep-16 00:40
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 472 Origyptian 16-Sep-16 01:53
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 493 Martin Stower 16-Sep-16 14:05
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists...whether read-or not! 499 DScribr 16-Sep-16 15:17
Galleries Correction 465 DScribr 16-Sep-16 15:15
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 403 Martin Stower 16-Sep-16 14:24
Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 448 DScribr 14-Sep-16 03:25
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 506 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 15:15
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 508 DScribr 14-Sep-16 16:04
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 485 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 21:44
Fringe-in-denial.... .... 512 DScribr 15-Sep-16 17:34
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 413 cladking 15-Sep-16 18:35
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 384 Origyptian 15-Sep-16 19:40
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 467 cladking 15-Sep-16 19:56
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 449 Origyptian 15-Sep-16 20:53
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 482 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 22:10
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 535 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 03:06
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 455 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 09:17
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 442 DScribr 15-Sep-16 17:37
Life Unfair! 491 DScribr 15-Sep-16 17:36
Wadi el Jarf evidence exists 447 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:14
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists...or does it?!? 575 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:09
Re: It wasn't 524 Martin Stower 09-Sep-16 12:37
Got Pics? 457 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:17
Re: It wasn't 665 M. J. Thomas 09-Sep-16 13:09
Re: It wasn't 496 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 13:26
Re: It wasn't 494 eyeofhorus33 09-Sep-16 15:54
Re: It wasn't 424 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 15:56
Re: Saqqara 535 Thunderbird 09-Sep-16 17:01
Re: Saqqara 539 cladking 09-Sep-16 17:18
Re: Djedefre. ...your Fired ! 489 Thunderbird 10-Sep-16 03:38
Re: It wasn't 456 Steve Clayton 10-Sep-16 01:08
Re: It wasn't 552 Origyptian 10-Sep-16 17:02
Re: It wasn't 630 Martin Stower 10-Sep-16 20:49
Re: It wasn't 567 Martin Stower 10-Sep-16 21:33
Re: It wasn't 489 Origyptian 12-Sep-16 00:53
Re: It wasn't 458 Martin Stower 12-Sep-16 20:43
Re: It wasn't 518 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 02:37
Re: It wasn't 482 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 14:57
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 507 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 16:20
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 487 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 16:42
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 505 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 17:18
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 424 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 18:00
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 401 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 17:30
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 452 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 18:11
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 494 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 22:12
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 480 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 23:08
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 424 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 23:26
Lifting IS Required. 544 DScribr 14-Sep-16 12:35
Re: Lifting IS Required. 406 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 16:16
Re: Lifting IS Required. 524 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 16:43
Re: Lifting IS Required. 447 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 16:51
Re: Lifting IS Required. 532 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 18:16
Re: Lifting IS Required. 481 M. J. Thomas 14-Sep-16 18:35
Re: Lifting IS Required. 460 randompHactor 14-Sep-16 19:28
Re: Lifting IS Required. 456 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 20:01
Re: Lifting IS Required. 512 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 19:03
Re: Lifting IS Required. 630 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 20:02
Re: Lifting IS Required. 486 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 20:13
Re: Lifting IS Required. 559 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 21:58
Re: Lifting IS Required. 439 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 23:18
Re: Lifting IS Required. 423 Steve Clayton 15-Sep-16 01:05
Re: Lifting IS Required. 647 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 20:38
Re: Lifting IS Required. 562 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 22:39
Re: Lifting IS Required. 316 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 23:18
Re: Lifting IS Required. 449 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 23:32
Re: Lifting IS Required. 477 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 23:55
Re: Lifting IS Required. 515 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 09:09
Re: Lifting IS Required. 485 Steve Clayton 14-Sep-16 19:42
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 450 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 17:02
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 422 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 17:38
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 440 Steve Clayton 16-Sep-16 12:38
The Pharaoh's House 490 DScribr 16-Sep-16 15:14
Water 355 D-Archer 21-Sep-16 11:28
Re: Water 455 cladking 21-Sep-16 13:37
Saw pit? 491 Apap 22-Sep-16 00:13
Great idea. 371 cladking 22-Sep-16 02:00
Re: Great idea. 494 Apap 22-Sep-16 18:22
Re: Great idea. 515 cladking 22-Sep-16 19:13
Re: Saw pit? 556 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:52


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