Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
This is a quick brief rough write up of our tentative ideas on Eden in Antarctica (or else Jerusalem). Please note that it is only a very tentative & uncertain idea/theory, it is not like some of our more certain other theses. It may very well/likely be wrong. Whatever things we are wrong/dumb about, it does not mean that we are all/always wrong/dumb about everything or that others/orthodox are all/always right/good about everything.
We were prompted by 'Heron's' Tree of Life posts to put this together. (It took 1-2 full-on days time & effort.)
(Please don't shift this to inner space, this is a mystery/history quest.)

First a list of extant hitherto Eden/Paradise location theories known to us:
Artic/North Pole/"Hyperborea"
America (Mormons)
Antarctica (R Flem-Ath)
"Atlantis"/Atlantic (I Donnelly, Flem-Ath)
Nigeria/Africa (W African myth, Haplogroups map)
Cyprus/Adana (composite Sarmast & Urantia theory)
Egypt (my mother)
Ethiopia?
Jerusalem
Cretaceous (Hoeh)
Lebanon (Thubron)
Carchemish (Waddell)
Arabia (Salibi, Muslim tradition)
Source of the Tigris & Euphrates / near Ararat (JWs/NWT)
Babylon(ia)
Mouth of the Tigris & Euphrates / Persian Gulf / "Dilmun"
Arabian river, Euphrates, Tigris, Elamite river (Seirizim/Helmkamp, Deyo)
Tarim Basin
India/Indus Valley (Waddell)
East Indies/Indonesia/Sundaland (Heron, A Santos)
Nile, Euphrates, Tigris, Ganges (Philipot?)

Because the names ot two of the 4 rivers of Paradise in Genesis are the same as the 2 rivers Tigris and Euphrates in Mesopotamia/Iraq, the most traditional orthodox theories are anchored in that area. (Sources say that the Euphrates was also called Gihon too.)
However there are some seeming possible problems with Eden in the Mesopotamia/Gulf area:
- the Great Flood if it was global may have wiped out two such small rivers.
- the Tigris & Euphrates (& 1/2 other river/s) mouths &/or sources didn't/don't meet then/now?
(In the Ice Age(s) the Gulf was land?)
- the don't have any certain match for one or two of the other rivers of Eden. (Euphrates can't be both the Euphrates and the Gihon unless Eden was in the Baghdad/Babylon area?)
- an actual physical Tree of Life has not been found in Babylonia/Gulf?
- the 2 rivers of Mesopotamia are said to be on top of flood deposits?
- Dilmun may not be Bahrein as supposed.

Some years ago we saw a picture of the 4 rivers of Eden depicted as a circle with a cross it it (+) in Philipot's book, which suggested to us that the 4 rivers were very large size world-dividing rivers, and we then happened to have an idea/theory that the 4 rivers of Eden may have been along where Pangaea and the continents split -up, with the rivers widening into the oceans. (Judaeo-Christians will notice the Cross....) In Herodotus rivers are boundaries of continent divisions of the Old World. The "river Okeanos"? (There are no large enough rivers in/on the continents, even the Nile and Amazon are "small" on a global scale view.)

However, we also noticed that in Genesis, the first river encompassed the land of gold, and the 2nd river encompassed the land of Cush/"Ethiopia" while in Greek the Ethiopians were from the silver age, which suggested that the 4 rivers may alternatively/also be world ages, and a few years later we discovered that the 4 rivers/lands of Eden do indeed match with the 4 world ages and the 4 quarters of many ancient cultures myths. (Flowing rivers are analogistic to flowing of time & peoples (compare in [difficult to go upstream in Maundeville's?] account?) "... all 4 rivers [meanings] carry the theme of expansion". The meaning of the 4 river names in Josephus seem to confirm they link with ages. Josephus says Moses was speaking philosophically?)
(Similarily the 4 metals/beasts of Daniel/Revelation may alternatively/also represent world ages of all world history/time. It seems that Evola likewise tied them with the 4 world ages of gentile cultures. Daniel said the gold/head/lion was Babel?)

In the early months of 2016 we were wondering if Ararat & the Ark might be in Antarctica. However, for a number of reasons there doesn't seem much doubt that the Ark probably is the "Durupinar" formation near Dogubayzit in Turkey.
A [1st] question we had is why does Antarctica play a waste-like no-role in history? / What role does Antarctica play in world history. (Though it was at least partly Ice Free in Piri Reis map.) We thought that either Eden or Ararat/Ark or Babel might be in Antarctica. (One consideration of ours was the South and East African hominids and where they would fit in a/the (post- or pre- Flood) biblical scheme.)
A 2nd question we had is why has Eden not been found anywhere? This seemingly may be answered by Antarctica being ice-covered for millenia and the 1st question? (Of course it is possible that it hasn't been found because it was destroyed in the (?Global) Great Flood, and the likelihood of it having been destroyed may invalidate the ice-cover necessity theory. The Flaming Sword might also imply a conflaguration? A list of possible hard to find locations may include: ice-covered (eg Antarctica, Greenland, Siberia), sunk/submerged in deep sea/ocean, dense/thick forest cover (eg Amazon), desert (eg Sahara, Gobi), high up in mountains (eg Himalayas), buried underground (eg see in book 'Forbidden Arachaeology').)
A route of the Ark from Antarctica to Turkey/Armenia seems to make sense to us, and it is similar to Fasold's proposed route from Tiahuanaco to Turkey. (Antichthones could be like pre-Flood world?)

Flem-Ath's book on "Atlantis" &/or Paradise in Antarctica has information about Antarctica being a natural navel of the world. We recently had an idea that Eden and the the 4 rivers & lands seemingly may match Antarctica as world navel. (Compare "Hyperborea" in a map by Mercator.) (We disagree with Flem-Ath on Atlantis though. Atlantis is post-Great Flood and is not the same flood as Noah's, and not the time as Eden, though it is possible it was founded in same place. (Variety of animal species under Lake Titicaca.))

There is maybe a possible tentative correspondence between these 3s/4s:
Havilah, Cush, Asshur, (unnamed/Nod?/Eden?)
Shem, Ham, Japheth, (Noah/Cainite?/giants?)
Lion, Leopard, Bear, (beast/dragon/composite)
Hebrew, Latin, Greek, (Inri/Aramaic?)
[Sumer, Egypt, Indus ??]
[Kish 1b / Ur 0/1?, Uruk 1a / Kish 1?, Uruk 1b? / Kish 1?]
[Chandravansa, Suryavansa, Agnivansa?]

"The Book of Adam and Eve speak of this water to the North in its description of the Garden. but they had an abundance of water then came from the North by way of rivers, streams and springs"

(* A problem with our theory may be that geophysical and historical maps suggest that Antarctica was only two islands not a continent?)

If Eden was at the source of the 4 rivers then it was high up, but if it was at the mouth/confluence of 4 rivers then it was low down (like Sodom). Atlantis has the highest mean elevation of the world's continents (though i'm not sure how much of this is ice? (Though Ice also weighs down land.) Orthodox academic book says the Mesopotamian "tree of life" sometimes on an elevation?)
Studies on longevity confirm that longevity is found associated with high elevation and some other things (slow pace agricultural life, walking, selenium rich soil, etc) (refs Gadd 'Book of Strange', Cory 'NZ Nutrition & your Health).
A possible problem though is that the global Great Flood had to cover all high mountains.

A couple of years ago we discovered that Atlantis city and island-continent positively matches Tiahuanaco and South America. (Jim Allen has the first credit since we found that he had already been more or less almost spot-on right before us, and his info did help us narrow down where the plain and capital city-island are.) (Note: Atlantis "sinking/sumbmergence" was not (or was not just) rising sea levels at end of Ice Age.)
Some months ago we came-up with a tentative theory that the "4" cities of Asshur in Genesis 10 seemingly may match 3 cities in Peru/Bolivia/Atlantis.
(It looks possible that the post-Flood ancients travelled (from Middle East) to and founded Atlantis city in a location close to the location of pre-Flood Eden?) Alternatively, the meanings of the names of the sons of Cush in Genesis 10 seemingly could match the concentric circles city of Atlantis/Tiahuanaco? (An modern source identifies South America with the Indian 'Kusa'.)
Antarctica could be Eden / Nod, and the 4 lands could match 4 continents. (South) America could be either Asshur or Cush or Havilah (gold)?

(Of course a possible problem is that if pre-Flood Eden was same as post-Flood present Antarctica "navel of the world" then a location in cold/dark pole is unlikely. The evidence that there was pole shift or axis tilt could answer this, though it would perhaps seem a big coincidence for post-Flood Antarctica to be similar (new) navel of the world like pre-Flood Eden seemingly may have been the (old) navel of the world?
(The mention of "summer and winter" just after the end of the Flood in Genesis may suggest/imply that there was axis tilt in/during the Flood?))


A possible problem with Antarctic location is that the garden of Eden was in/to (or from) the east in Genesis (which is why some like Santos and Heron locate it in East Indies). (There seems to be two (1 far west & 1 far east) gardens/trees in mythology? Hesperides & Colchis? Urani & Aeria? Peru/Atlantis & East Indies?) The east theories often seem to have a non-global Flood view like in the [Phoenix or Griffin?] tale/traditions. (The phoenix (and Punt?) was in the East / "Arabia" / Asia. The Sphinx also faces east.) (Note: from the biblical and historical evidences, I do not agree that the Biblical Flood matches end of Ice Age. Genesis seems to imply global flood, as the earth was full of violence in Gen 6.)
It is pointed out that Eden may have been in west since in Genesis all movements from Eden to Babel were eastwards. But if the Flood was global then this may effect the "east" (or "west") location?
"East" in Hebrew is qedem which means "east, old/ancient/beginning/before-creation/front". The Semites considered the east/qedem as front, west/akharru/amurru behind, north/saphon left, south/yamin right. There might possibly be a correspondence of the Hebrew east/front with the Egyptian south/up/top (esp if Moses wrote any of the Torah)?

It is possible that that we are wrong that Eden was in Antarctica. There is a possibility that Antarctica may perhaps rather/just be the "Mt Hermon" landing place of the 'bene-Elohim' "sons of God" / "Watchers" / "Aliens" / "Annunaki" / "Gods" / amphibians/fish-men [astro-nauts] / Pleiadians. (Martian meteorites found in Antarctica. Highest mean elevation.)

The alternative traditional Judaeo-Christian view that Eden was in Jerusalem/Israel may perhaps be right instead. (Two springs from Mt of Olives in prophetic book. Jerusalem ~ Eden, Babel ~ Enoch/Nod? Giza - Bethlehem alignment in Lemesurier's book?) Hoeh claimed that there were 4 rivers around the vicinity of Jerusalem in modern maps of the Cretaceous period?
(I'm not sure if the dust/earth/clay that Adam made from could help locate Eden? Bentonite clay? Red clay? 7 colour earths/clays in Islamic/Arabic?)
[The Arks path could have been like "around the world in 80 days" or solar year?]
Perhaps it is more likely that Eden is buried deep underground in the Israel/Palestine area considering that the earth being full of violence, and the biblical Flood being global, and that geologists claim no evidence in the semiments on the immediate surface of the Earth of a global flood, and that evidence of traces of humans & civilisation in all periods of the geological time scale as shown in 'Forbidden Archaeology'?

In any case we have two suggestions for locating Eden:
- Reconstructing Pangaea may possibly help locate where the 4 rivers/lands and Eden were?
- The meanings of the names of the lands and the rivers may help identify the landmasses that they match.

* Our tentative history scheme in line with bibical and other sources goes:
Eden [Antarctica?] -> (?Global) Flood -> Ararat/Dogubayzit -> Sumerian/Babel -> Peru/Atlantis.

* Our main candidate matches for Atlantis/Tiahuanaco in the "Table of 70/72 Nations" of Genesis 10 are: the meanings of the names of the "4"[/3] cities of Ashur; the meanings of the names of the sons of Cush; the meanings of the names of Tarshish &/or Kittim; Caphtor(im)?

* We previously thought that (meanings of the names of) the 3 cities of Asshur may match Indus valley cities, but it seems they better match Peruvian ones (though this too could be wrong as they may perhaps match Assyrian ones).

Candidates lists:

Aish / Adam/Awdawm ("blood/red/earth/man")
~ Adamu/Adapa/Atarpi? Ad(ites)? (A)Uduin/Alulim? Utu? Atum? Odin? Rom(t)? Asar/Osiris? Dana/Danu/Don? Addanc? Itzamna? Atau? Alalus? Patriarch "Dirt" (Miao)? A'a'tam "people" (Amerind)? Audhumbla? Damu?Dumuzi?

Ash / Eve/[Hhawah/Khavah] "mother of all living"
~ Quinoa/Keen-wah "mother of all grain"? Isis? Hebat? Hebe? Hine/Hina? Gaya? Aebh? Aoife? Chia/Chie? Sheba? Mat Chinoi? Havath (Phoenician).
~ Yam Goddess? "African Eve"? Niobe? Pandora?

Nahash "snake/serpent, shining, whisperer, he who knows secrets/copper, magus/practicer of divination" (Nehushtan):
~ rainbow serpent (Australian)? "The Yam Goddess is often associated with a snake..." ("= the rainbow snake"?)? Ladon? [bird of paradise?] "genie"/"apkallu"? Buzur? Age of Reptiles (Mesozoic)? caduceus?
~ Nachan/Chan? Nahusha? Ningishzida? Nusku/Nuska? Nanna? Aranzahas? Naga(s)? Lagash? Phoenix [pinehas]? Sangasu? Neheb-kau? Necessitas? Diancecht? Anansi (spider, trickster)? Nichant?

cherubim:
~ griffin? apkallu/genie? crab?

Asshur/(')Ashshuwr/'ashshur/ash.shoor/w'ashur "a step/steps"/"black"/"strong" / "to go in a strait line" / "the gracious one" / "prince" / "host of heaven"?
~ Asia/Assuwa/Assos? Euros/Europe? Aesir? Asura(s)? Osiris? Is(h)kur? Anshar? Ashur/Assur/Assyria? Anshan? Telasar? Ellasar? Shu? Anhur(et)? Surya?

Cush(i)/kus(h)/chus(ites)/cushaeans /Cus/Khush/Kuwsh/koosh "black / burnt/scorched there is / dark-faced/swarthy"
~ Kus? Nin-girsu? Khuns? Chaos? Cos? Caucasus? Kushan(a)? Hindu Kush? Kusa (Indian)? Bit-Agusi? Kush (Egyptian for Ethiopians)? "King's son of Kush"? Xhosa? Quechua? Kusheh Dagh? Cuzco? Khuzistan/Susa/Insusinak/Susinak? Kassites? Meski-Aggushe-ir (Uruk 1)? Kur (sh/r interchange)? Colchis? Tu Kueh? Cai Caious?

Dilmun
~ Elam? Olman? Daleimin? tell el-lahm? Teman? Tylos? Dunnu? deluge?
~ Danube? Black Sea flood? Egypt? Bahrein? Elam? Indus valley? Peru/Atlantis? Eden? Nod? Dogubayzit/Armenia (Fasold)? Turkmenistan/Transoxania?

(Garden of) Eden/Heden ("delight" ["abundant, lush"?] "land abundant with water supply"):
~ Edin (between Lagash & Umma)? Adana? Aden? Jotuns/Etins? Ad(ites)? Idun(a)? Athena? Hades? Aryana-vaejo/Iran (d/r)? Etain? Erin? Udyana? Otien? Bit-Adini/(Beth-)Eden? Suedin? Guedin? Anedin? Arinna (d/r)? Aztlan? Jann Adn.
~ hanging gardens? garden of Fin? sacred grove of Poseidon (Atlantis/Tiahuanaco)? Western Paradise ('Journey to the West')? Gethsemane? Sad-El? Dilmun? Hesperides?

"Enoch" (or Irad) city:
~ Tenbuch/Timbuktu? Tenoch(titlan)? Tiwanaku/Tiahuanaco? Nunki/Urdu/Eridu? Erech/Uruk? Janicula/Janiculum?

Euphrates/perath/firat/alFarat/alFurat "river + father" / "very wide" / "fructifying/fruitfulness" / "dispersion/flower" [breaking off?] (great river)


Gihon/giychown/gichown/gheekhone "what arises from the east" / "stream"/"(a) bursting forth / gusher"
~ Ceyhan? Gincko? Nile called Gihon? Euphrates called Gihon? Okeanos? Gihon spring Jerusalem? Greek? Ganges? Gaihun-Aras? Nihon/Japan? Karun/Karum?

Havilah/hhawilah/Hayul/Havil / cawila'/w'et-chawiylah /Chawilah /emlak/Euilat/Evilas/evilat/evileans "sand" "circular" "twisting/suffers pain" (gold, bdellium aromatic resin, onyx red precious stone; Nimrod may have been son of Havilah?) :
~ Avaris? Africa? Colchis? Avalon? Hawaiki? Himalaya(s)? Kabyle? Ekhilis? Havelian (upper Indus)?
~ Africa (gold)? Australia (gold rush)? Peru (gold)? Altai (gold)? Eldorado/Manoa? Atlantis (concentric circles)?

Hiddekel/Chiddeqel/Hidiglat/dicle/dijla/Tigris "rapid/swift/narrow" ["fast running (beast)"? rapid stream / widen?] ("spear + conquer/overthrow + capture/catch"?)
~ Itak/Ztak? Tigris? Indus/Hindu?

Nod "wandering"
~ Nut? Dunnu/Tummul? Nudimmud? Nuzi? India/Indus? Andes? Nodens? Nodamate/Rhadamanthys? Mud (Mu)? Noqdi? Nuristan (d/r)? North "left, north"?
~ Dilmun? Australia?

navels/centres/middles:
~ Arctic (W...); Cuzco; Atlantis; Antarctica; Midland Ocean (Haushofer/MacKinder); Mide/Meath/Tara; Greenwich; Berlin (Hitler); Wewelsberg; Heartland (Haushofer/MacKinder); Rome; Mediterranean; Olympos; Delphi; Giza/Cairo; Middle East; Jerusalem; Tabor; Eden/Tree; Mecca; Babylon; Eridu; (Su)Meru; Kailasa; ["within the 4 seas"?]; Rapanui / Easter Island [Moai all face inwards]; nexus; Agartha; Earth's Core; Geocentric; Heliocentric.

Pis(h)on/piyshown/peeshone "multitude" / "spreader/increase" / "flowing":
~ Phasis? Apsu? Persephone? Pisces? Vis(h)nu? Uizun? Seyhan? Wadi Baish? Wadi Bishah? Pontus? Qezal Owzan?

"river of life"
~ fountain of youth W Indies? 2 springs from Mt of Olives? Bethesda (John)? springs in Florida?

Tree of Life (12 fruits, "probably produced the source of life"), &/or Tree of Knowledge (of Good & Evil) (forbidden fruit) :
~ tree of all seeds (Persian/Iranian)? ox-horn tree (Persian/Iranian)? human dna double helix (Daniken)? Ask(r) & Embla? Rowan Ash (Waddell)? the Date Palm (Waddell)? Yggdrasil? World Tree/World Pillar (Spanuth)? the Cross? Cabala 10 sephiroth tree? Scythian lamb? hemp? Stylised/sacred tree (Mesopotamian)? hieros gamos with the pillar (linga/phallus) and the upsidedown U or sheaf (vulva/yoni) (ref 'Heron')? Cycad (Man) & Yam (Goddess) (ref 'Heron')? Sycamore fig? "know" & "knowledge" are often used with physical intimacy in the bible etc? Olive (Athena)? Pandora's box? Panacea? bread & water of life (Adapa)? orange (Hislop)? Palm Tree King? fir cone?

bdellium "aromatic resin" "distinction" ("a red mineral"/"pearls"/"anthrax", like manna, like myrrh) &/or onyx "red precious stone"
~ oreichalc? amber?

Flaming Sword:
~ Surtr? a fire/conflaguration? "Northern Lights"? volcano? lightning? petroleum??

Flood:
~ Global? ur flood (Woolley)? black sea flood? filling of mediterranean? Ben(n)u connected with flood? end of Ice Age? Atlantis "sinking"?

"the Lie":
~ "you shall not die but become as God/s"? evolution? popes list? "aliens" (angels)?

4 rivers/lands:
- 4 positions of Plow around Nth Pole?
- 4 rivers Hyperborea in arctic in map by Mercator?
- 4 ages/legs Sioux.
- Navaho: white [east], blue [south], yellow [west], black [north]
- Navaho: In the age of beginning 4 streams flowed from the earth's center to the 4 cardinal points.
- 4 suns (Mexico/stone of 4 suns);
- Aztec: representation of Aztlan (4 points)?
- Tlalocan source of rivers that nourished earth?
- cross of Quetzalcoatl?
- Aztec: Tonacatecuhtli drove 4 roads thru centre of earth after cataclysm to disperse flood waters of the deluge (ref. M Jordan)?
- 4 chiefs/parts earth (Bochica).
- 4 quarters of Cuzco & of Inca empire?
- 4 day creation week (Benin/Fon/Voodoo)
- red side, white side, green front, black behind (Fon).
- gold, silver, brass/copper, crystal (Corra/Maeldune)?
- Eddaic/Norse: 4 streams from Audhumla/Ymir (Cooper)?
- Swastika?
- 4 quarters/quadrata of Rome & of Jerusalem?
- 4 ages Gold, Silver, brazen/bronze, iron.
- Atlantis Cross?
- 4: north/Moeris west/Rhampsinitus east/Asychis south/Psammeticus.
- 4 canopic sons of Horus
- "The Cross made of palm, cedar, olive, cypress representing the quarters."
- 4 rivers Pis(h)on, Gihon, Hiddekel/Tigris, Euphrates.
- 4 lands Havilah/gold, Cush, Asshur, unnamed/Nod?/Eden/none?
- 4 beasts Lion, Bear, Leopard, Dragon/beast.
- 4 cherubim
- 4 archangels Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel
- 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse (Israel)?
- Pseudepigrapha says 3 sons Noah divided 4 region post-flood earth leaving 1 quarter unallocated/unihabited?
- 4 rivers Islam: Euphrates, Nile, Nahrawan, Balkh.
- "king of the 4 quarters".
- Sumerian: shubur/east sumer/south uri/north martu/west?
- Mesopotamia: "to water the 4 regions of the earth";
- 4 rivers Karduniash (T, E, Surappi, Ukni);
- 4: Lion/Nergal, Marduk/bull, Nebo/man, Ninurta/eagle
- Iranian: 4 cups from 4 rivers (Oxus, Indus, Euphrates, Danube).
- 4 tree/metals [gold, silver, steel, iron-compound] (Iran);
- Indian counterpart(s): 4 rivers Vedic (Vanguhidaitya, Rangha, Haptahendu, Haetumant; Oxus, Indus, Helmand, Aras/Euphrates);
- 4 yugas Indian (krita/satya, treta, dvapara, kali/dark).
- Chinese/Buddhist: 4 [rivers from mt?] Sumeru gold silver agate crystal.
- Chinese version: "Kun-lun source of 4 great rivers which flowed in 4 directions", (ref Larousse).
- China: "within the 4 seas"?
- 4 kings of heaven: gold/li, silver/ma, agate/chao, crystal/wen (China)
- 4 kings of heaven: pure/1st, vast, sea, age/last (China).
- 4 signs Leo, Taurus, Aquarius, Scorpio/Aquilo/Serpens
- 4 seasonal positions of Sun/Earth?


Donald MacKenzie showed connection of 4 quarters, ages, metals, colours, castes, etc of ancient cultures.

* The 4 rivers of Eden, the Cross, 4 gospels, 3 languages of Inri, parting of Jesus garment into 4, etc are condisered to symbolise Yeshua died for people of all ages, races, languages, and quarters of the world (see such a statement in Ethelwerd for an example).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Jul-16 13:59 by Rofhessa.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Garden of Eden location theories 1936 Rofhessa 08-Jul-16 20:18
Re: Garden of Eden location theories 316 Notinham 09-Jul-16 17:01
Re: Garden of Eden location theories 114 RebeccaHirst 27-Aug-17 18:05
Re: Garden of Eden location theories 122 Susan Doris 29-Aug-17 17:46
Re: Garden of Eden location theories 69 Rofhessa 08-Sep-17 22:29
Re: Garden of Eden location theories 67 Spiros 09-Sep-17 00:54
Re: Garden of Eden location theories 140 Rofhessa 09-Sep-17 06:34


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.