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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do not respect your opinion as despite all that has
> been said you still have it.

More Thanos signature charm.

Yes, I still have my opinion because despite all that has been said, the evidence is not conclusive.



> Reisner was no more trying to "deceive the world"
> as Lehner was about the worker's town.

Not quite. According to your opinion, Reisner knew that the notion of a "displaced tomb" from the "original" at Saqqara to the secret pit at G7000x was pure speculation as a way to explain the artifacts in G7000x, and assuming that he monitored the acceptance of his hypotheses, he surely noticed that the field interpreted his speculation as being "historical fact" as observed by Lehner. And yet even though Reisner was quick to correct the media from initially erroneously reporting that G7000x was the tomb of Sneferu, Reisner apparently took no corresponding action to correct the misconception that Hetepheres' alleged original tomb in Saqqara was established historical fact rather than merely his speculation.

Not sure how that substantially differs from what you're objecting to.


Let's revisit Reisner's account of this episode in bmfa25_1927_01to36.pdf and see how clearly he made it known that he was merely speculating and not stating fact (bold emphasis is mine):

    "...the accumulated evidence permitted us to draw certain definite conclusions, many of which have been outlined in the preceding chapters. The intact tomb at Giza, which bears on our map the number G 7000 X, was a secret tomb made during the building of the pyramid of Cheops, and by its position could only be the tomb of a favored member of the family of that king. The deposit in the tomb was a reburial brought from another tomb. The great golden canopy, a magnificent example of the metal working of Dynasty IV. and the accompanying inlaid box, bore the name of Sneferuw, the predecessor and father of Cheops. Four other objects, the carrying-chair, the jewel box containing the inlaid silver anklets, an inlaid panel, and a gold disc, bore the names and titles of the Queen Hetepheres, a mother of a king of Upper and Lower Egypt ... The queen was buried by Cheops in her original tomb, for the broken seals of his storehouse were in the rubbish gathered up from the floor of that tomb. Therefore, in all reasonable human probability, Hetepheres was the mother of Cheops and a wife of Sneferuw."

Reisner clearly and unconditionally presents that Hetepheres was relocated from her original tomb at Dashur and reburied at G7000x. There is not a hint of speculation in his narrative on that point. Further along, Reisner states:

    "In accordance with Egyptian custom the original tomb of Hetepheres was at Dahshur beside the pyramid of her husband Sneferuw..."

    "...and I have no doubt that Queen Hetepheres inspected her tomb [in Saqqara] repeatedly during its construction and after completion. She outlived her husband and was buried by her son Cheops in the tomb prepared by Sneferuw."

    "We have no definite evidence of just when the queen-mother died, probably in the first half of the reign of Cheops. Nor have we any proof of how long a time elapsed before the royal police discovered that the tomb had been broken open by thieves, but it was certainly no great number of years after the burial."

    "The anger of the king can be imagined and the penalties meted out to every one who came under the suspicion of guilt or negligence. Resolved to place the burial of his mother beyond the reach of further desecration, Cheops ordered her body with the alabaster sarcophagus and all that remained of the equipment, to be transferred to a secret grave in the precincts of his own royal cemetery at Giza. One wonders whether the “annals of the Old Kingdom’’ ever showed any record of this event."

    "The Dahshur tomb of Queen Hetepheres after the plundering was left in great confusion. If there is one thing with which the Egyptian field archaeologist is familiar it is the state in which thieves leave an ancient tomb. Originally the floor of the Dahshur tomb was completely covered by the burial equipment. The alabaster sarcophagus stood in the southwestern quarter of the room under the cloth-lined gold canopy presented by Sneferuw. In the southern part of the room, in front of the canopy, the gold-cased furniture was set, together with the gold-cased boxes which contained the more valuable objects, the toilet-boxes, and the copper ewer and basin."

    "The doorway was blocked with rectangular blocks of fine white limestone set in plaster. The thieves forced a way through this masonry block, no doubt near the top, so that a part of the plaster and stone fell within the chamber. These men were probably of the cemetery workmen or guards and knew exactly where the valuables in a grave were to be found. In this case, they seem to have paid little attention to the deposit on the floor but made for the sarcophagus itself. They trampled over the pottery and the furniture to the canopy which they must have upset to the east or taken down to afford room for getting at the coffin lid. They were unable to lift the lid by the four short projections, two at each end, which served as handles, for they attempted to force the lid by driving wedges, probably of metal, between the box and the lid. The edges are chipped on all four sides by these efforts, and one corner of the lid is broken off. Whether the thieves succeeded before they were discovered we shall not know until we open the coffin."

    "We do not yet know the state in which the thieves left the mummy of the queen, but probably at this point the mummy of the queen was taken out and placed on a bier or in some temporary receptacle for transport. Finally the lid and then the sarcophagus would have been manoeuvred out one at a time and taken up the sloping entrance corridor.[/b]"

    "The heavy coffin was loaded on a wooden sledge. That was the method used in transporting heavy blocks of stone in the Pyramid Age. It was probably dragged by large gangs of men from Dahshur to Giza, but whether by the desert or some valley road is uncertain. The sledge with its load might even have been carried part of the way by water. The time required would be measured by weeks, not months."

Nowhere does Reisner clarify that "what follows is my speculation that Hetepheres was originally buried in Dahshur and that her original tomb was plundered by contemporaneous robbers and so she was then reburied in Giza." Rather, throughout his report he repeats what clearly are factual decrees of her reburial. It seems obvious that he felt the need to do that because:

    1. he believed his team was the first to breach the G7000X Old Kingdom tomb of Hetepheres I.
    2. her body was missing from g7000x,
    3. he believed she was the wife of Sneferu, mother of Khufu,
    4. he believed she definitely was buried next to Sneferu in Dashur.
    5. decreeing the reburial reconciled what appeared to be her tomb in Giza rather than Dashur.

Regardless of the specific details he offers, there is nothing in his report that would lead anyone to believe he is merely speculating that Hetepheres' original tomb is in Dashur. Rather, he repeats several times that there is no doubt that she was first buried there and then her tomb was relocated.

So sure, there are a few "probablies" and "would have beens" inserted here and there in an attempt to fill in the details, but Reisner also is teaching a series of decrees that can be reasonably inferred to be accepted as fact. And it was indeed accepted as fact for 60 years until Lehner called him on it in 1985.

To say that Reisner wasn't trying to "deceive" anyone implies that he didn't realize how baselessly dogmatic his statements were. And while that's a possibility, it only means that he would then be guilty of lacking objectivity in reporting the results of his investigation. And that leads us back to it being another example of the far lower standards of proof that were tolerated in reporting facts vs. speculation back then.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08-Jun-16 03:27 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Creighton Persists Part 2 4042 JonnyMcA 19-May-16 14:30
That chemical analysis . . . 642 Martin Stower 19-May-16 17:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 572 Origyptian 19-May-16 20:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 547 Jon Ellison 19-May-16 21:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 516 Martin Stower 19-May-16 22:01
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 510 Martin Stower 19-May-16 21:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 492 Origyptian 19-May-16 22:12
The unfounded accusations continue..... 597 DScribr 19-May-16 22:46
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 578 Martin Stower 20-May-16 00:14
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 501 Thanos5150 20-May-16 00:35
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 386 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 01:57
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 517 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:47
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 396 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 03:20
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 476 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:10
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 469 DScribr 20-May-16 23:23
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 497 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 23:35
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 477 DScribr 20-May-16 23:40
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 431 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:07
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 349 DScribr 20-May-16 02:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 504 Martin Stower 19-May-16 22:55
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 504 DScribr 19-May-16 22:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 486 Martin Stower 19-May-16 23:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 550 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:48
The lack of analysis . . . 577 DScribr 20-May-16 03:05
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 537 Audrey 20-May-16 04:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 457 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 06:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 492 DScribr 20-May-16 23:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 625 Origyptian 20-May-16 15:46
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 451 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 447 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 492 Martin Stower 21-May-16 02:07
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 471 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 06:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 495 Origyptian 21-May-16 14:58
So much for chemical analysis . . . 466 DScribr 21-May-16 19:54
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 476 Martin Stower 21-May-16 22:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 468 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:00
Re: What's the end game with this? 576 Thunderbird 20-May-16 17:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 470 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 454 Audrey 20-May-16 22:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 423 Martin Stower 20-May-16 22:54
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 462 Audrey 20-May-16 23:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 396 Martin Stower 20-May-16 23:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 472 Audrey 21-May-16 00:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 543 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:45
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 397 DScribr 21-May-16 01:35
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 348 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:06
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 428 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 504 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 602 Martin Stower 21-May-16 02:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 529 Martin Stower 20-May-16 18:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 544 Origyptian 20-May-16 20:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 445 Thanos5150 20-May-16 20:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 463 Origyptian 20-May-16 21:03
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 489 Martin Stower 20-May-16 23:44
Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 420 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:36
Re: Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 400 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:23
Re: Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 598 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:55
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 457 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 484 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:15
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 414 Origyptian 21-May-16 04:08
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 484 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 553 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:09
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 431 Martin Stower 22-May-16 00:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 522 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:57
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 493 Origyptian 22-May-16 01:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 486 Jon Ellison 22-May-16 01:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 491 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:51
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 464 Origyptian 22-May-16 04:21
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 510 Martin Stower 22-May-16 14:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 475 Origyptian 22-May-16 17:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 493 Martin Stower 22-May-16 18:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 445 Origyptian 22-May-16 20:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 408 Martin Stower 22-May-16 21:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 501 Origyptian 22-May-16 23:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 518 Martin Stower 23-May-16 00:03
Re: That chemical analysis is all but forgotten...... 470 DScribr 23-May-16 03:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 503 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 08:47
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 474 Origyptian 21-May-16 13:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 438 Martin Stower 22-May-16 00:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 466 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 499 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:39
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 400 Origyptian 22-May-16 04:45
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 408 Martin Stower 22-May-16 16:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 402 Martin Stower 21-May-16 22:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 590 Origyptian 21-May-16 23:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 442 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 688 Martin Stower 20-May-16 22:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 442 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:41
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 523 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 548 Origyptian 21-May-16 04:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 366 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 508 Thanos5150 19-May-16 22:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 490 Martin Stower 19-May-16 23:18
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 406 DScribr 20-May-16 03:07
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 487 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 433 DScribr 20-May-16 03:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 508 Thanos5150 20-May-16 05:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 401 Origyptian 20-May-16 13:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 512 Thanos5150 20-May-16 17:57
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 514 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 18:56
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 488 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:23
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 555 Thanos5150 20-May-16 19:27
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 432 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 19:29
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 463 Audrey 20-May-16 21:02
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 474 Origyptian 20-May-16 21:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 467 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 21:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 525 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:08
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 506 Audrey 20-May-16 22:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 420 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 485 Audrey 20-May-16 22:47
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 406 Thanos5150 20-May-16 23:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 425 Audrey 20-May-16 23:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 409 Thanos5150 21-May-16 00:01
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 419 Audrey 21-May-16 00:23
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 472 Thanos5150 21-May-16 03:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 467 Audrey 21-May-16 05:02
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 402 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 09:10
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 546 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 09:28
The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 504 DScribr 21-May-16 13:37
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 420 Origyptian 21-May-16 13:56
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 466 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 17:48
Willful ignorance continues....... 492 DScribr 21-May-16 19:49
Re: Willful ignorance continues....... 520 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 21:28
Re: Stealing IS a crime! Willful ignorance continues....... 426 DScribr 22-May-16 00:39
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 500 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 18:17
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 388 DScribr 21-May-16 19:57
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 516 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 20:24
Stealing IS A Crime!!! 498 DScribr 22-May-16 00:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 496 Origyptian 21-May-16 15:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 404 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 17:53
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 474 Origyptian 21-May-16 21:39
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 459 Jon Ellison 22-May-16 00:46
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 419 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:09
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 498 Audrey 21-May-16 00:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 505 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 457 Audrey 21-May-16 01:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 524 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:41
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 490 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 11:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 451 DScribr 21-May-16 01:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 460 Origyptian 20-May-16 19:25
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 470 Thanos5150 20-May-16 19:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 423 Origyptian 20-May-16 20:35
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 490 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:03
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 413 Origyptian 20-May-16 22:38
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 497 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 430 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 494 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:05
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 435 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:27
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 453 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 433 Audrey 21-May-16 01:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 507 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:34
Pending statement from Dr. Gorlitz 732 Richard Fusniak 20-May-16 12:04
Re: Pending statement from Dr. Gorlitz 522 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:25
Martin Persists 569 drrayeye 23-May-16 01:30
Re: Martin Persists 538 Martin Stower 23-May-16 12:01
Re: Martin Persists 413 R Avry Wilson 24-May-16 19:58
Mainstream Persists 447 DScribr 25-May-16 00:56
Re: Martin Persists 623 Merrell 28-May-16 09:00
Re: Martin Persists 442 Martin Stower 28-May-16 11:11
as long as we are counting 548 Warwick 25-May-16 16:42
Re: as long as we are counting 509 DScribr 26-May-16 01:53
Re: as long as we are counting 556 cladking 26-May-16 16:57
Re: as long as we are counting 463 Martin Stower 26-May-16 17:31
Re: as long as we are counting 477 Origyptian 26-May-16 17:40
Re: as long as we are counting 399 cladking 27-May-16 00:21
Re: as long as we are counting 483 Warwick 27-May-16 01:27
Re: as long as we are counting 313 Origyptian 27-May-16 02:53
And work hard at obfuscation. 378 DScribr 27-May-16 00:57
Re: And work hard at obfuscation. 439 cladking 27-May-16 02:55
Re: as long as we are counting 408 Warwick 27-May-16 01:29
Re: as long as we are counting 514 cladking 27-May-16 02:59
Re: as long as we are counting 488 Warwick 27-May-16 03:35
Re: as long as we are counting 476 Audrey 27-May-16 04:32
Re: as long as we are counting 432 Warwick 27-May-16 05:34
Re: as long as we are counting 523 cladking 27-May-16 13:35
Re: as long as we are counting 480 Warwick 27-May-16 14:56
The original page on Indiegogo etc. 571 Martin Stower 25-May-16 22:10
Another performance . . . 463 Martin Stower 26-May-16 13:47
Re: Another performance . . . 414 Warwick 26-May-16 13:57
Re: Another performance . . . 362 Origyptian 26-May-16 14:53
Re: Another performance . . . 450 Martin Stower 26-May-16 16:09
Re: Another performance . . . 466 cladking 26-May-16 16:18
Re: Another performance . . . 370 Martin Stower 26-May-16 16:31
Re: Another performance . . . 632 cladking 26-May-16 17:54
Re: Another performance . . . 485 Martin Stower 26-May-16 18:29
Re: Another performance . . . 351 cladking 26-May-16 23:52
Re: Another performance . . . 486 eyeofhorus33 26-May-16 19:00
Re: Another performance . . . 391 cladking 27-May-16 00:05
Re: Another performance . . . 420 Audrey 27-May-16 00:23
Re: Another performance . . . 406 Warwick 27-May-16 01:42
Re: Another performance . . . 486 cladking 27-May-16 02:07
Re: Another performance . . . 428 Warwick 27-May-16 02:15
Re: Another performance . . . 466 cladking 27-May-16 02:48
Re: Another performance . . . 446 Warwick 27-May-16 03:48
Re: Another performance . . . 471 cladking 27-May-16 03:53
Re: Another performance . . . 532 Warwick 27-May-16 05:41
Re: Another performance . . . 425 Audrey 27-May-16 04:51
Re: Another performance . . . 438 Warwick 27-May-16 05:18
NOT Primitive, Low-Tech 425 DScribr 28-May-16 14:09
Re: NOT Primitive, Low-Tech 470 cladking 28-May-16 14:31
Re: Another performance . . . 501 Thanos5150 26-May-16 16:38
Re: Another performance . . . 388 cladking 26-May-16 16:44
Re: Another performance . . . 491 Origyptian 26-May-16 17:33
Re: Another performance . . . 504 cladking 26-May-16 17:40
Re: Another performance . . . 497 Martin Stower 26-May-16 17:49
Re: Another performance . . . 499 cladking 27-May-16 00:15
Re: Another performance . . . 491 Martin Stower 27-May-16 19:17
Re: Another performance . . . 506 Warwick 27-May-16 20:00
Re: Another performance . . . 444 cladking 27-May-16 20:21
Re: Another performance . . . 545 Martin Stower 27-May-16 23:06
Re: Oops....we missed the Basalt flooring and machine disc cuts 355 Thunderbird 27-May-16 23:28
Re: Oops....we missed the Basalt flooring and machine disc cuts 466 Martin Stower 27-May-16 23:41
Re: Another performance . . . 488 cladking 28-May-16 00:33
Re: Another performance . . . 474 Martin Stower 28-May-16 00:59
Re: Another performance . . . 468 cladking 28-May-16 02:36
Re: Another performance . . . 450 Martin Stower 28-May-16 23:55
Re: Another performance . . . 394 cladking 29-May-16 01:23
Re: Another performance . . . 431 Martin Stower 29-May-16 19:35
Re: Another performance . . . 579 cladking 29-May-16 20:43
Re: Another performance . . . 486 R Avry Wilson 28-May-16 02:39
Re: Another performance . . . 507 cladking 28-May-16 03:41
Re: Another performance . . . 452 Thanos5150 28-May-16 06:20
Re: Another performance . . . 529 cladking 28-May-16 13:40
Re: Another performance . . . 477 Origyptian 28-May-16 15:04
Re: Another performance . . . 478 Jon Ellison 28-May-16 16:38
Re: Another performance . . . 340 cladking 28-May-16 17:52
Re: Another performance . . . 438 Jon Ellison 28-May-16 17:58
Re: Another performance . . . 365 Origyptian 29-May-16 02:51
Re: Another performance . . . 386 cladking 29-May-16 03:08
Re: Another performance . . . 448 Origyptian 29-May-16 04:03
Re: Another performance . . . 464 Thanos5150 29-May-16 05:03
Re: Another performance . . . 496 Origyptian 29-May-16 13:18
Re: Another performance . . . 510 Thanos5150 29-May-16 15:03
Focus on the axiom 459 Origyptian 29-May-16 15:27
Re: Focus on everything BUT the facts 506 DScribr 29-May-16 15:41
Re: Focus on everything BUT the facts 411 cladking 29-May-16 17:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 398 Thanos5150 30-May-16 01:49
Re: Focus on the axiom 451 Origyptian 30-May-16 05:32
Re: Focus on the axiom 447 Thanos5150 31-May-16 02:35
Re: Focus on the axiom 479 Origyptian 31-May-16 06:41
Re: Focus on the axiom 479 Thanos5150 01-Jun-16 00:28
Re: Focus on reality. 437 DScribr 01-Jun-16 00:51
Re: Focus on the axiom 426 Origyptian 01-Jun-16 06:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 472 Thanos5150 02-Jun-16 03:08
Re: Focus on the axiom 447 cladking 02-Jun-16 04:00
Re: Focus on the axiom 399 Origyptian 02-Jun-16 04:25
Re: Focus on the axiom 401 Thanos5150 02-Jun-16 16:34
Re: Focus on the axiom 408 cladking 02-Jun-16 18:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 451 Origyptian 03-Jun-16 18:04
Re: Focus on the axiom 442 R Avry Wilson 03-Jun-16 18:43
Re: Focus on the axiom 418 Origyptian 03-Jun-16 21:24
Re: Focus on the axiom 440 Corpuscles 03-Jun-16 23:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 302 Origyptian 04-Jun-16 06:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 364 R Avry Wilson 04-Jun-16 00:12
Re: Focus on the axiom 360 Origyptian 04-Jun-16 07:02
Re: Focus on the axiom 488 Jon Ellison 04-Jun-16 10:18
Re: Focus on the axiom 424 R Avry Wilson 05-Jun-16 04:15
Re: Focus on the axiom 418 Martin Stower 03-Jun-16 22:28
Re: Focus on the axiom 434 cladking 03-Jun-16 22:51
Re: Focus on the axiom 552 Thanos5150 04-Jun-16 01:08
Re: Focus on the axiom 440 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 01:25
Re: Focus on the axiom 488 Thanos5150 05-Jun-16 04:15
Re: Focus on the axiom 431 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 17:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 480 Martin Stower 05-Jun-16 19:35
Re: Focus on the axiom 490 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 22:48
Re: Focus on the axiom 413 Martin Stower 05-Jun-16 23:47
Re: Focus on the axiom 441 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 00:54
Re: Focus on the axiom 401 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 01:01
Re: Focus on the axiom 446 Thanos5150 06-Jun-16 01:05
Re: Focus on the axiom 421 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 02:40
Re: Focus on the axiom 446 R Avry Wilson 06-Jun-16 03:39
Re: Focus on the axiom 368 Audrey 06-Jun-16 04:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 382 Jon Ellison 06-Jun-16 07:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 384 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 14:00
Re: Focus on the axiom 448 cladking 06-Jun-16 16:13
Re: Focus on the axiom 401 Corpuscles 07-Jun-16 00:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 447 Origyptian 07-Jun-16 02:55
Re: Focus on the axiom 378 Thanos5150 06-Jun-16 15:33
Re: Focus on the axiom 327 Warwick 06-Jun-16 16:17
Re: Focus on the axiom 458 Audrey 06-Jun-16 16:39
Re: Focus on the axiom 451 Warwick 06-Jun-16 16:58
Re: Focus on the axiom 357 Audrey 06-Jun-16 17:46
Re: Focus on the axiom 396 Warwick 06-Jun-16 18:13
Re: Focus on the axiom 345 Audrey 06-Jun-16 23:44
Read what I wrote 343 Warwick 07-Jun-16 17:15
Re: Read what I wrote 379 Audrey 08-Jun-16 00:22
Re: Read what I wrote 371 Martin Stower 08-Jun-16 01:40
Re: Read what I wrote 537 Audrey 08-Jun-16 01:52
Re: Read what I wrote 397 Martin Stower 08-Jun-16 13:47
Vyse's veracity.... 397 Warwick 09-Jun-16 16:29
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 323 Audrey 09-Jun-16 16:51
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 418 Warwick 09-Jun-16 17:19
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 458 Audrey 09-Jun-16 17:45
Wilkinson's opinions 380 Warwick 09-Jun-16 18:47
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 388 Origyptian 09-Jun-16 20:57
Ori's opinions 531 DScribr 10-Jun-16 01:45
Re: The incredible Teflon Red Ochre 379 Thunderbird 10-Jun-16 04:07
Re: The incredible Teflon Red Ochre 497 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 14:49
Re: The incredible Red Ochre lasted 4500 yrs. 419 DScribr 11-Jun-16 00:40
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 337 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 02:28
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 338 Audrey 10-Jun-16 03:05
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 455 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 14:09
Bibliography 391 Warwick 10-Jun-16 18:07
Re: Bibliography 405 Origyptian 10-Jun-16 18:35
Re: Bibliography 402 Warwick 10-Jun-16 20:01
Re: Bibliography 453 Origyptian 10-Jun-16 21:54
Re: Bibliography 469 Corpuscles 10-Jun-16 23:45
Re: Bibliography 293 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 17:01
Re: Bibliography 415 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 22:36
Re: Bibliography 381 Audrey 11-Jun-16 23:08
Re: Bibliography 392 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 23:26
Re: Bibliography 315 Audrey 12-Jun-16 02:30
Re: Bibliography 365 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 03:19
Re: Bibliography 305 Audrey 12-Jun-16 03:32
Re: Bibliography 339 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 03:40
Re: Bibliography 340 Audrey 12-Jun-16 03:50
Re: Bibliography 322 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 04:30
Re: Bibliography 302 Audrey 12-Jun-16 04:47
Re: Bibliography 296 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 05:02
Re: Bibliography 428 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 10:49
Re: Bibliography 388 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 15:56
Re: Bibliography 316 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 17:41
But Avry.. 359 Warwick 12-Jun-16 17:58
Re: But Avry.. 429 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 18:14
Re: But Avry.. 390 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:37
Re: But Avry.. 402 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 20:15
Re: But Avry.. 410 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:44
Re: But Avry.. 374 Warwick 12-Jun-16 18:59
Re: But Avry.. 369 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 20:11
This whole discussion is a boondoggle 424 DScribr 13-Jun-16 01:04
Re: This whole discussion is a boondoggle 406 Warwick 13-Jun-16 16:24
Re: Bibliography 287 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 10:28
Re: Bibliography 372 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 23:35
Re: Bibliography 407 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 23:58
Re: Bibliography 380 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 00:48
Re: Bibliography 417 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 01:13
Re: Bibliography 447 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 01:33
Re: Bibliography 446 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 02:05
Re: Bibliography 436 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 18:09
Re: Bibliography 420 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 19:22
Re: Bibliography 367 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 19:56
Re: Bibliography 295 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 20:47
Re: Bibliography 405 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:03
Re: Bibliography 401 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 00:22
Re: Bibliography 298 Audrey 12-Jun-16 01:58
Re: Bibliography 424 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 02:24
Re: Bibliography 347 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 12:23
Re: Bibliography 363 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 14:50
Re: Bibliography 367 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 16:46
Re: Bibliography 287 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:10
Re: Bibliography 405 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:18
Re: Bibliography 390 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 00:35
Re: Bibliography 426 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:39
Re: Bibliography 352 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 01:23
Re: Bibliography 354 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 02:18
Re: Bibliography 304 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 13:55
Re: Bibliography 360 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 15:45
Re: Bibliography 401 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 17:32
Re: Bibliography 334 Warwick 12-Jun-16 17:41
Re: Bibliography 398 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 18:08
Re: Bibliography 379 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:48
Re: Bibliography 386 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:35
Re: Bibliography 338 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 19:09
Gonna ignore the noise and try again 379 Warwick 12-Jun-16 19:53
Re: Gonna ignore the noise and try again 391 Thunderbird 12-Jun-16 20:18
Re: Gonna ignore the noise and try again 358 Audrey 12-Jun-16 21:04