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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Martin Stower Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Origyptian wrote:
> >
> > > When did Görlitz say he sampled the Khufu
> > > cartouche? How could he have sampled the Khufu
> > > cartouche when those same scratches have been
> > > there for years before he was ever up there?
> >
> >
> > http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,329195,329260#msg-329260
> >
> > You will note that the Indiegogo link, valid at
> > time of posting, is now stale. The relevant quote
> > (reproduced for your convenience) is this:
> >
> > “A first sample of the cartridge [kartusche] was
> > taken during a first expedition with our camera
> > crew and is now in the hands of a well known
> > institute for lab analysis in Germany.”
> >
> > Said, I think, by the maker of the film, Frank
> > Höfer.
>
> Yes, the link is dead.

This is the revised version currently available:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/das-cheops-projekt--2#/

> And you "think" it was the Hofer who said
> it?

As I’ve stated already, I (unlike you) was following this at the time (December 2013 in this case). I, unlike you, anticipated what would happen and saved the page in question. Now that I’m where I can access what I saved, I find that, yes, at the bottom it has this: “Created By: Frank Höfer Producer

> So you are acknowledging that it really
> wasn't Görlitz or Erdmann who
> claimed the Khufu cartouche was sampled!

Do try not to be utterly stupid. Frank Höfer (of NuoViso Filmproduktion, which seems to be essentially himself) was (is) the filmmaker. Naturally he handled publicity for the film, including the crowdsourcing campaign on Indiegogo.

Take a look at the current page which everyone else can see and then try telling us that Höfer was and is acting without the authorisation of Görlitz and Erdmann.

> And what "cartouche" did the "film maker" mean?
> You know with certainty he meant the "Khufu"
> cartouche and not the "phyle" glyphs farther back
> toward the end of the wall?

Do try not to be utterly stupid. Which cartouche is pictured on the current page? Same as on the old one, for your information.

For your further information, here is the relevant text from the old one (Deutsch and English, verbatim):

Quote

1837 entdeckte der britische Pyramidenforscher Howard Vyse in den Entlastungskammern der Cheopspyramide Inschriften und eine Kartusche des Cheops, die ihn als Bauherrn belegen. Die Echtheit dieser Königskartusche ist schon seit langem ein Streitpunkt.

Während Ägyptologen von der Echtheit der Kartusche überzeugt sind, geriet Vyse schnell unter Verdacht diese selbst gefälscht zu haben um eine sensationelle Entdeckung für sich verbuchen zu können. Sollte man dies tatsächlich nachweisen können, würden sich die ohnehin zahlreichen Spekulationen um die tatsächlichen Erbauer der Gizeh-Pyramiden um einige Fragen erweitern.

Drehte es sich bei der Frage der Echtheit der Kartusche bisher lediglich um die korrekte Schreibweise des Namenszuges von Cheops, haben es sich Dr. Dominique Görlitz (bekannt aus den Abora Expeditionen nach dem Vorbild Thor Heyerdahls) und Buchautor Stefan Erdmann zur Aufgabe gemacht, die Echtheit der Kartusche auf Basis neuester Untersuchungs- und Datierungsmethoden zu bestimmen. Bei einer ersten Forschungsreise mit unserem Filmteam konnten bereits Materialproben der Kartusche entnommen werden, welche nun von einem renommierten Institut für Laboranalytik in Deutschland auf Auswertung warten.

Quote

In 1837 the British pyramid researcher Howard Vyse discovered hieroglyphs and the cartridge of Cheops in the relieving chambers of the Great Pyramid that proove him as the principal. The authenticity of this cartridge has been a contentious point for a long time.

While egyptologists are confident on the authenticity of the cartridge, Vyse very quickly came under suspicion to have faked it by himself so he can claim the sensational discovery for him. If this can be prooven a lot of questions will be added to the speculations on the builders of the Giza pyramids.

While in the past only the correct spelling of Cheops name was in focus during the controversy of the cartridge's authenticity, Dr.Dominique Goerlitz ( known for the Abora expeditions along the lines of Thor Heyerdahl) and author Stefan Erdmann want to determine it's validity based on the newest examination and dating methods. A first sample of the cartridge was taken during a first expedition with our camera crew and is now in the hands of a well known institute for lab analysis in Germany.

Is it beginning to sink in, yet?

> That's your proof that Görlitz claimed the
> samples were from the "Khufu cartouche"?

Femano. You’re playing catch-up. Do try not to let your overweening conceit get in the way of learning from one who was following this at the time and knows more about it than you do.

This is your proof otherwise: a feeble, speculative argument that Görlitz allowed his colleague in the exercise to grossly misrepresent him? No, Femano, the page stayed up through the first (and largely abortive) crowdsourcing campaign. It was only pulled when the whole thing exploded and Görlitz and Erdmann and Höfer realised how much trouble they were in—which (I’ll remind you again) I saw coming.

> So quick to vilify the investigators by quoting
> their technician who's [sic]
> expertise clearly is not archeology. Well done.

Well, no, actually. Indication is that Höfer is a producer, director, cinematographer and editor—and certainly the director (and apparently the producer) of Das Cheops Projekt. How you get “technician” from this escapes me, other than by a dishonest attempt to downplay his involvement.

> [divinecosmos.e-puzzle.ru]
> [circulartimes.org]

Your point? I noted what these show in 2013:

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,580469,580789#msg-580789

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,580469,581536#msg-581536

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,580469,582423#msg-582423

You’re playing catch-up, Femano. Get over yourself.

> Are you really suggesting that Höfer was at all
> qualified to be the Görlitz-Erdmann spokesperson
> regarding things archeological? Here are more
> examples of Höfer's scholarly filmmaking
> achievements:
>
> Unter falscher Flagge
> Die Premiere

Your point? Höfer was a filmmaker. He made films. I’m sure he was perfectly competent to talk about their content and represent correctly the claims made by Görlitz and Erdmann in a film he made himself.

Again, Femano, Höfer’s claims remained on the site for the entire duration of the initial crowdsourcing campaign. Do you imagine that this happened in the teeth of protests from Görlitz?

> Of course, the irony is that those glyphs back at
> the end corner of that wall are indeed the "phyle"
> suffix that follow an anticipated cartouche which
> is very possibly concealed behind the wall joint.
> So Höfer might not have been that far off by
> associating those glyphs as being part of the
> "cartouche" which would make him essentially
> correct!
>
> Whacky fun.

Mr Catch-Up “knows better” again, on a purely speculative (and entirely spurious) basis. As usual.

M.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20-May-16 22:45 by Martin Stower.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Creighton Persists Part 2 4039 JonnyMcA 19-May-16 14:30
That chemical analysis . . . 642 Martin Stower 19-May-16 17:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 571 Origyptian 19-May-16 20:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 546 Jon Ellison 19-May-16 21:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 516 Martin Stower 19-May-16 22:01
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 509 Martin Stower 19-May-16 21:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 491 Origyptian 19-May-16 22:12
The unfounded accusations continue..... 596 DScribr 19-May-16 22:46
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 577 Martin Stower 20-May-16 00:14
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 500 Thanos5150 20-May-16 00:35
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 386 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 01:57
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 516 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:47
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 396 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 03:20
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 474 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:10
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 467 DScribr 20-May-16 23:23
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 496 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 23:35
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 476 DScribr 20-May-16 23:40
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 431 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:07
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 348 DScribr 20-May-16 02:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 503 Martin Stower 19-May-16 22:55
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 504 DScribr 19-May-16 22:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 486 Martin Stower 19-May-16 23:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 550 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:48
The lack of analysis . . . 577 DScribr 20-May-16 03:05
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 536 Audrey 20-May-16 04:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 456 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 06:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 490 DScribr 20-May-16 23:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 625 Origyptian 20-May-16 15:46
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 451 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 446 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 491 Martin Stower 21-May-16 02:07
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 471 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 06:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 495 Origyptian 21-May-16 14:58
So much for chemical analysis . . . 465 DScribr 21-May-16 19:54
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 475 Martin Stower 21-May-16 22:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 467 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:00
Re: What's the end game with this? 575 Thunderbird 20-May-16 17:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 469 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 454 Audrey 20-May-16 22:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 422 Martin Stower 20-May-16 22:54
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 461 Audrey 20-May-16 23:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 395 Martin Stower 20-May-16 23:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 472 Audrey 21-May-16 00:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 543 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:45
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 397 DScribr 21-May-16 01:35
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 348 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:06
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 426 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 503 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 599 Martin Stower 21-May-16 02:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 529 Martin Stower 20-May-16 18:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 543 Origyptian 20-May-16 20:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 444 Thanos5150 20-May-16 20:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 463 Origyptian 20-May-16 21:03
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 488 Martin Stower 20-May-16 23:44
Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 419 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:36
Re: Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 400 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:23
Re: Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 596 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:55
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 457 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 483 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:15
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 413 Origyptian 21-May-16 04:08
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 483 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 552 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:09
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 429 Martin Stower 22-May-16 00:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 521 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:57
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 492 Origyptian 22-May-16 01:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 484 Jon Ellison 22-May-16 01:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 486 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:51
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 463 Origyptian 22-May-16 04:21
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 509 Martin Stower 22-May-16 14:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 473 Origyptian 22-May-16 17:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 493 Martin Stower 22-May-16 18:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 442 Origyptian 22-May-16 20:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 407 Martin Stower 22-May-16 21:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 499 Origyptian 22-May-16 23:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 518 Martin Stower 23-May-16 00:03
Re: That chemical analysis is all but forgotten...... 469 DScribr 23-May-16 03:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 503 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 08:47
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 474 Origyptian 21-May-16 13:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 438 Martin Stower 22-May-16 00:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 466 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 498 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:39
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 398 Origyptian 22-May-16 04:45
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 408 Martin Stower 22-May-16 16:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 402 Martin Stower 21-May-16 22:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 590 Origyptian 21-May-16 23:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 441 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 685 Martin Stower 20-May-16 22:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 441 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:41
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 522 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 548 Origyptian 21-May-16 04:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 365 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 508 Thanos5150 19-May-16 22:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 489 Martin Stower 19-May-16 23:18
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 405 DScribr 20-May-16 03:07
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 487 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 431 DScribr 20-May-16 03:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 508 Thanos5150 20-May-16 05:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 401 Origyptian 20-May-16 13:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 511 Thanos5150 20-May-16 17:57
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 513 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 18:56
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 487 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:23
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 553 Thanos5150 20-May-16 19:27
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 430 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 19:29
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 462 Audrey 20-May-16 21:02
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 473 Origyptian 20-May-16 21:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 466 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 21:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 524 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:08
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 506 Audrey 20-May-16 22:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 419 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 485 Audrey 20-May-16 22:47
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 405 Thanos5150 20-May-16 23:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 425 Audrey 20-May-16 23:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 408 Thanos5150 21-May-16 00:01
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 419 Audrey 21-May-16 00:23
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 471 Thanos5150 21-May-16 03:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 466 Audrey 21-May-16 05:02
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 402 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 09:10
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 546 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 09:28
The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 503 DScribr 21-May-16 13:37
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 418 Origyptian 21-May-16 13:56
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 465 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 17:48
Willful ignorance continues....... 491 DScribr 21-May-16 19:49
Re: Willful ignorance continues....... 519 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 21:28
Re: Stealing IS a crime! Willful ignorance continues....... 426 DScribr 22-May-16 00:39
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 500 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 18:17
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 387 DScribr 21-May-16 19:57
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 515 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 20:24
Stealing IS A Crime!!! 497 DScribr 22-May-16 00:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 496 Origyptian 21-May-16 15:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 404 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 17:53
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 473 Origyptian 21-May-16 21:39
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 458 Jon Ellison 22-May-16 00:46
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 418 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:09
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 497 Audrey 21-May-16 00:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 504 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 456 Audrey 21-May-16 01:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 523 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:41
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 489 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 11:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 450 DScribr 21-May-16 01:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 460 Origyptian 20-May-16 19:25
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 469 Thanos5150 20-May-16 19:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 422 Origyptian 20-May-16 20:35
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 489 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:03
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 412 Origyptian 20-May-16 22:38
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 496 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 429 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 493 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:05
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 434 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:27
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 453 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 432 Audrey 21-May-16 01:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 506 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:34
Pending statement from Dr. Gorlitz 732 Richard Fusniak 20-May-16 12:04
Re: Pending statement from Dr. Gorlitz 522 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:25
Martin Persists 568 drrayeye 23-May-16 01:30
Re: Martin Persists 536 Martin Stower 23-May-16 12:01
Re: Martin Persists 412 R Avry Wilson 24-May-16 19:58
Mainstream Persists 446 DScribr 25-May-16 00:56
Re: Martin Persists 621 Merrell 28-May-16 09:00
Re: Martin Persists 442 Martin Stower 28-May-16 11:11
as long as we are counting 548 Warwick 25-May-16 16:42
Re: as long as we are counting 508 DScribr 26-May-16 01:53
Re: as long as we are counting 556 cladking 26-May-16 16:57
Re: as long as we are counting 463 Martin Stower 26-May-16 17:31
Re: as long as we are counting 476 Origyptian 26-May-16 17:40
Re: as long as we are counting 399 cladking 27-May-16 00:21
Re: as long as we are counting 482 Warwick 27-May-16 01:27
Re: as long as we are counting 312 Origyptian 27-May-16 02:53
And work hard at obfuscation. 377 DScribr 27-May-16 00:57
Re: And work hard at obfuscation. 438 cladking 27-May-16 02:55
Re: as long as we are counting 407 Warwick 27-May-16 01:29
Re: as long as we are counting 513 cladking 27-May-16 02:59
Re: as long as we are counting 486 Warwick 27-May-16 03:35
Re: as long as we are counting 476 Audrey 27-May-16 04:32
Re: as long as we are counting 431 Warwick 27-May-16 05:34
Re: as long as we are counting 521 cladking 27-May-16 13:35
Re: as long as we are counting 479 Warwick 27-May-16 14:56
The original page on Indiegogo etc. 569 Martin Stower 25-May-16 22:10
Another performance . . . 462 Martin Stower 26-May-16 13:47
Re: Another performance . . . 413 Warwick 26-May-16 13:57
Re: Another performance . . . 361 Origyptian 26-May-16 14:53
Re: Another performance . . . 449 Martin Stower 26-May-16 16:09
Re: Another performance . . . 465 cladking 26-May-16 16:18
Re: Another performance . . . 368 Martin Stower 26-May-16 16:31
Re: Another performance . . . 630 cladking 26-May-16 17:54
Re: Another performance . . . 484 Martin Stower 26-May-16 18:29
Re: Another performance . . . 350 cladking 26-May-16 23:52
Re: Another performance . . . 485 eyeofhorus33 26-May-16 19:00
Re: Another performance . . . 391 cladking 27-May-16 00:05
Re: Another performance . . . 418 Audrey 27-May-16 00:23
Re: Another performance . . . 405 Warwick 27-May-16 01:42
Re: Another performance . . . 486 cladking 27-May-16 02:07
Re: Another performance . . . 427 Warwick 27-May-16 02:15
Re: Another performance . . . 465 cladking 27-May-16 02:48
Re: Another performance . . . 446 Warwick 27-May-16 03:48
Re: Another performance . . . 471 cladking 27-May-16 03:53
Re: Another performance . . . 532 Warwick 27-May-16 05:41
Re: Another performance . . . 424 Audrey 27-May-16 04:51
Re: Another performance . . . 437 Warwick 27-May-16 05:18
NOT Primitive, Low-Tech 424 DScribr 28-May-16 14:09
Re: NOT Primitive, Low-Tech 469 cladking 28-May-16 14:31
Re: Another performance . . . 501 Thanos5150 26-May-16 16:38
Re: Another performance . . . 387 cladking 26-May-16 16:44
Re: Another performance . . . 490 Origyptian 26-May-16 17:33
Re: Another performance . . . 499 cladking 26-May-16 17:40
Re: Another performance . . . 497 Martin Stower 26-May-16 17:49
Re: Another performance . . . 498 cladking 27-May-16 00:15
Re: Another performance . . . 491 Martin Stower 27-May-16 19:17
Re: Another performance . . . 505 Warwick 27-May-16 20:00
Re: Another performance . . . 443 cladking 27-May-16 20:21
Re: Another performance . . . 545 Martin Stower 27-May-16 23:06
Re: Oops....we missed the Basalt flooring and machine disc cuts 354 Thunderbird 27-May-16 23:28
Re: Oops....we missed the Basalt flooring and machine disc cuts 465 Martin Stower 27-May-16 23:41
Re: Another performance . . . 487 cladking 28-May-16 00:33
Re: Another performance . . . 474 Martin Stower 28-May-16 00:59
Re: Another performance . . . 467 cladking 28-May-16 02:36
Re: Another performance . . . 450 Martin Stower 28-May-16 23:55
Re: Another performance . . . 394 cladking 29-May-16 01:23
Re: Another performance . . . 430 Martin Stower 29-May-16 19:35
Re: Another performance . . . 575 cladking 29-May-16 20:43
Re: Another performance . . . 485 R Avry Wilson 28-May-16 02:39
Re: Another performance . . . 507 cladking 28-May-16 03:41
Re: Another performance . . . 452 Thanos5150 28-May-16 06:20
Re: Another performance . . . 529 cladking 28-May-16 13:40
Re: Another performance . . . 476 Origyptian 28-May-16 15:04
Re: Another performance . . . 477 Jon Ellison 28-May-16 16:38
Re: Another performance . . . 339 cladking 28-May-16 17:52
Re: Another performance . . . 437 Jon Ellison 28-May-16 17:58
Re: Another performance . . . 364 Origyptian 29-May-16 02:51
Re: Another performance . . . 386 cladking 29-May-16 03:08
Re: Another performance . . . 448 Origyptian 29-May-16 04:03
Re: Another performance . . . 462 Thanos5150 29-May-16 05:03
Re: Another performance . . . 494 Origyptian 29-May-16 13:18
Re: Another performance . . . 510 Thanos5150 29-May-16 15:03
Focus on the axiom 458 Origyptian 29-May-16 15:27
Re: Focus on everything BUT the facts 505 DScribr 29-May-16 15:41
Re: Focus on everything BUT the facts 410 cladking 29-May-16 17:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 396 Thanos5150 30-May-16 01:49
Re: Focus on the axiom 451 Origyptian 30-May-16 05:32
Re: Focus on the axiom 446 Thanos5150 31-May-16 02:35
Re: Focus on the axiom 478 Origyptian 31-May-16 06:41
Re: Focus on the axiom 479 Thanos5150 01-Jun-16 00:28
Re: Focus on reality. 436 DScribr 01-Jun-16 00:51
Re: Focus on the axiom 426 Origyptian 01-Jun-16 06:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 471 Thanos5150 02-Jun-16 03:08
Re: Focus on the axiom 446 cladking 02-Jun-16 04:00
Re: Focus on the axiom 398 Origyptian 02-Jun-16 04:25
Re: Focus on the axiom 400 Thanos5150 02-Jun-16 16:34
Re: Focus on the axiom 407 cladking 02-Jun-16 18:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 451 Origyptian 03-Jun-16 18:04
Re: Focus on the axiom 441 R Avry Wilson 03-Jun-16 18:43
Re: Focus on the axiom 417 Origyptian 03-Jun-16 21:24
Re: Focus on the axiom 439 Corpuscles 03-Jun-16 23:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 302 Origyptian 04-Jun-16 06:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 364 R Avry Wilson 04-Jun-16 00:12
Re: Focus on the axiom 358 Origyptian 04-Jun-16 07:02
Re: Focus on the axiom 487 Jon Ellison 04-Jun-16 10:18
Re: Focus on the axiom 424 R Avry Wilson 05-Jun-16 04:15
Re: Focus on the axiom 417 Martin Stower 03-Jun-16 22:28
Re: Focus on the axiom 433 cladking 03-Jun-16 22:51
Re: Focus on the axiom 551 Thanos5150 04-Jun-16 01:08
Re: Focus on the axiom 438 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 01:25
Re: Focus on the axiom 487 Thanos5150 05-Jun-16 04:15
Re: Focus on the axiom 430 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 17:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 478 Martin Stower 05-Jun-16 19:35
Re: Focus on the axiom 489 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 22:48
Re: Focus on the axiom 412 Martin Stower 05-Jun-16 23:47
Re: Focus on the axiom 439 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 00:54
Re: Focus on the axiom 400 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 01:01
Re: Focus on the axiom 446 Thanos5150 06-Jun-16 01:05
Re: Focus on the axiom 421 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 02:40
Re: Focus on the axiom 445 R Avry Wilson 06-Jun-16 03:39
Re: Focus on the axiom 365 Audrey 06-Jun-16 04:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 381 Jon Ellison 06-Jun-16 07:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 383 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 14:00
Re: Focus on the axiom 448 cladking 06-Jun-16 16:13
Re: Focus on the axiom 401 Corpuscles 07-Jun-16 00:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 447 Origyptian 07-Jun-16 02:55
Re: Focus on the axiom 377 Thanos5150 06-Jun-16 15:33
Re: Focus on the axiom 326 Warwick 06-Jun-16 16:17
Re: Focus on the axiom 457 Audrey 06-Jun-16 16:39
Re: Focus on the axiom 450 Warwick 06-Jun-16 16:58
Re: Focus on the axiom 357 Audrey 06-Jun-16 17:46
Re: Focus on the axiom 396 Warwick 06-Jun-16 18:13
Re: Focus on the axiom 344 Audrey 06-Jun-16 23:44
Read what I wrote 343 Warwick 07-Jun-16 17:15
Re: Read what I wrote 378 Audrey 08-Jun-16 00:22
Re: Read what I wrote 370 Martin Stower 08-Jun-16 01:40
Re: Read what I wrote 536 Audrey 08-Jun-16 01:52
Re: Read what I wrote 396 Martin Stower 08-Jun-16 13:47
Vyse's veracity.... 397 Warwick 09-Jun-16 16:29
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 323 Audrey 09-Jun-16 16:51
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 417 Warwick 09-Jun-16 17:19
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 454 Audrey 09-Jun-16 17:45
Wilkinson's opinions 380 Warwick 09-Jun-16 18:47
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 387 Origyptian 09-Jun-16 20:57
Ori's opinions 529 DScribr 10-Jun-16 01:45
Re: The incredible Teflon Red Ochre 378 Thunderbird 10-Jun-16 04:07
Re: The incredible Teflon Red Ochre 495 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 14:49
Re: The incredible Red Ochre lasted 4500 yrs. 418 DScribr 11-Jun-16 00:40
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 335 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 02:28
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 337 Audrey 10-Jun-16 03:05
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 454 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 14:09
Bibliography 391 Warwick 10-Jun-16 18:07
Re: Bibliography 404 Origyptian 10-Jun-16 18:35
Re: Bibliography 401 Warwick 10-Jun-16 20:01
Re: Bibliography 452 Origyptian 10-Jun-16 21:54
Re: Bibliography 468 Corpuscles 10-Jun-16 23:45
Re: Bibliography 292 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 17:01
Re: Bibliography 414 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 22:36
Re: Bibliography 380 Audrey 11-Jun-16 23:08
Re: Bibliography 391 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 23:26
Re: Bibliography 309 Audrey 12-Jun-16 02:30
Re: Bibliography 363 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 03:19
Re: Bibliography 305 Audrey 12-Jun-16 03:32
Re: Bibliography 338 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 03:40
Re: Bibliography 339 Audrey 12-Jun-16 03:50
Re: Bibliography 322 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 04:30
Re: Bibliography 302 Audrey 12-Jun-16 04:47
Re: Bibliography 295 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 05:02
Re: Bibliography 427 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 10:49
Re: Bibliography 388 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 15:56
Re: Bibliography 315 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 17:41
But Avry.. 358 Warwick 12-Jun-16 17:58
Re: But Avry.. 429 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 18:14
Re: But Avry.. 388 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:37
Re: But Avry.. 401 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 20:15
Re: But Avry.. 409 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:44
Re: But Avry.. 373 Warwick 12-Jun-16 18:59
Re: But Avry.. 368 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 20:11
This whole discussion is a boondoggle 424 DScribr 13-Jun-16 01:04
Re: This whole discussion is a boondoggle 405 Warwick 13-Jun-16 16:24
Re: Bibliography 287 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 10:28
Re: Bibliography 370 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 23:35
Re: Bibliography 406 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 23:58
Re: Bibliography 380 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 00:48
Re: Bibliography 417 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 01:13
Re: Bibliography 446 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 01:33
Re: Bibliography 442 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 02:05
Re: Bibliography 434 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 18:09
Re: Bibliography 420 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 19:22
Re: Bibliography 366 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 19:56
Re: Bibliography 294 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 20:47
Re: Bibliography 404 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:03
Re: Bibliography 400 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 00:22
Re: Bibliography 297 Audrey 12-Jun-16 01:58
Re: Bibliography 423 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 02:24
Re: Bibliography 346 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 12:23
Re: Bibliography 362 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 14:50
Re: Bibliography 365 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 16:46
Re: Bibliography 286 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:10
Re: Bibliography 403 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:18
Re: Bibliography 389 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 00:35
Re: Bibliography 426 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:39
Re: Bibliography 351 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 01:23
Re: Bibliography 352 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 02:18
Re: Bibliography 303 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 13:55
Re: Bibliography 360 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 15:45
Re: Bibliography 397 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 17:32
Re: Bibliography 332 Warwick 12-Jun-16 17:41
Re: Bibliography 397 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 18:08
Re: Bibliography 378 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:48
Re: Bibliography 386 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:35
Re: Bibliography 338 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 19:09
Gonna ignore the noise and try again 377 Warwick 12-Jun-16 19:53
Re: Gonna ignore the noise and try again 390 Thunderbird 12-Jun-16 20:18
Re: Gonna ignore the noise and try again 357 Audrey 12-Jun-16 21:04