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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Martin Stower Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Origyptian wrote:
> >
> > > When did Görlitz say he sampled the Khufu
> > > cartouche? How could he have sampled the Khufu
> > > cartouche when those same scratches have been
> > > there for years before he was ever up there?
> >
> >
> > http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,329195,329260#msg-329260
> >
> > You will note that the Indiegogo link, valid at
> > time of posting, is now stale. The relevant quote
> > (reproduced for your convenience) is this:
> >
> > “A first sample of the cartridge [kartusche] was
> > taken during a first expedition with our camera
> > crew and is now in the hands of a well known
> > institute for lab analysis in Germany.”
> >
> > Said, I think, by the maker of the film, Frank
> > Höfer.
>
> Yes, the link is dead.

This is the revised version currently available:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/das-cheops-projekt--2#/

> And you "think" it was the Hofer who said
> it?

As I’ve stated already, I (unlike you) was following this at the time (December 2013 in this case). I, unlike you, anticipated what would happen and saved the page in question. Now that I’m where I can access what I saved, I find that, yes, at the bottom it has this: “Created By: Frank Höfer Producer

> So you are acknowledging that it really
> wasn't Görlitz or Erdmann who
> claimed the Khufu cartouche was sampled!

Do try not to be utterly stupid. Frank Höfer (of NuoViso Filmproduktion, which seems to be essentially himself) was (is) the filmmaker. Naturally he handled publicity for the film, including the crowdsourcing campaign on Indiegogo.

Take a look at the current page which everyone else can see and then try telling us that Höfer was and is acting without the authorisation of Görlitz and Erdmann.

> And what "cartouche" did the "film maker" mean?
> You know with certainty he meant the "Khufu"
> cartouche and not the "phyle" glyphs farther back
> toward the end of the wall?

Do try not to be utterly stupid. Which cartouche is pictured on the current page? Same as on the old one, for your information.

For your further information, here is the relevant text from the old one (Deutsch and English, verbatim):

Quote

1837 entdeckte der britische Pyramidenforscher Howard Vyse in den Entlastungskammern der Cheopspyramide Inschriften und eine Kartusche des Cheops, die ihn als Bauherrn belegen. Die Echtheit dieser Königskartusche ist schon seit langem ein Streitpunkt.

Während Ägyptologen von der Echtheit der Kartusche überzeugt sind, geriet Vyse schnell unter Verdacht diese selbst gefälscht zu haben um eine sensationelle Entdeckung für sich verbuchen zu können. Sollte man dies tatsächlich nachweisen können, würden sich die ohnehin zahlreichen Spekulationen um die tatsächlichen Erbauer der Gizeh-Pyramiden um einige Fragen erweitern.

Drehte es sich bei der Frage der Echtheit der Kartusche bisher lediglich um die korrekte Schreibweise des Namenszuges von Cheops, haben es sich Dr. Dominique Görlitz (bekannt aus den Abora Expeditionen nach dem Vorbild Thor Heyerdahls) und Buchautor Stefan Erdmann zur Aufgabe gemacht, die Echtheit der Kartusche auf Basis neuester Untersuchungs- und Datierungsmethoden zu bestimmen. Bei einer ersten Forschungsreise mit unserem Filmteam konnten bereits Materialproben der Kartusche entnommen werden, welche nun von einem renommierten Institut für Laboranalytik in Deutschland auf Auswertung warten.

Quote

In 1837 the British pyramid researcher Howard Vyse discovered hieroglyphs and the cartridge of Cheops in the relieving chambers of the Great Pyramid that proove him as the principal. The authenticity of this cartridge has been a contentious point for a long time.

While egyptologists are confident on the authenticity of the cartridge, Vyse very quickly came under suspicion to have faked it by himself so he can claim the sensational discovery for him. If this can be prooven a lot of questions will be added to the speculations on the builders of the Giza pyramids.

While in the past only the correct spelling of Cheops name was in focus during the controversy of the cartridge's authenticity, Dr.Dominique Goerlitz ( known for the Abora expeditions along the lines of Thor Heyerdahl) and author Stefan Erdmann want to determine it's validity based on the newest examination and dating methods. A first sample of the cartridge was taken during a first expedition with our camera crew and is now in the hands of a well known institute for lab analysis in Germany.

Is it beginning to sink in, yet?

> That's your proof that Görlitz claimed the
> samples were from the "Khufu cartouche"?

Femano. You’re playing catch-up. Do try not to let your overweening conceit get in the way of learning from one who was following this at the time and knows more about it than you do.

This is your proof otherwise: a feeble, speculative argument that Görlitz allowed his colleague in the exercise to grossly misrepresent him? No, Femano, the page stayed up through the first (and largely abortive) crowdsourcing campaign. It was only pulled when the whole thing exploded and Görlitz and Erdmann and Höfer realised how much trouble they were in—which (I’ll remind you again) I saw coming.

> So quick to vilify the investigators by quoting
> their technician who's [sic]
> expertise clearly is not archeology. Well done.

Well, no, actually. Indication is that Höfer is a producer, director, cinematographer and editor—and certainly the director (and apparently the producer) of Das Cheops Projekt. How you get “technician” from this escapes me, other than by a dishonest attempt to downplay his involvement.

> [divinecosmos.e-puzzle.ru]
> [circulartimes.org]

Your point? I noted what these show in 2013:

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,580469,580789#msg-580789

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,580469,581536#msg-581536

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,580469,582423#msg-582423

You’re playing catch-up, Femano. Get over yourself.

> Are you really suggesting that Höfer was at all
> qualified to be the Görlitz-Erdmann spokesperson
> regarding things archeological? Here are more
> examples of Höfer's scholarly filmmaking
> achievements:
>
> Unter falscher Flagge
> Die Premiere

Your point? Höfer was a filmmaker. He made films. I’m sure he was perfectly competent to talk about their content and represent correctly the claims made by Görlitz and Erdmann in a film he made himself.

Again, Femano, Höfer’s claims remained on the site for the entire duration of the initial crowdsourcing campaign. Do you imagine that this happened in the teeth of protests from Görlitz?

> Of course, the irony is that those glyphs back at
> the end corner of that wall are indeed the "phyle"
> suffix that follow an anticipated cartouche which
> is very possibly concealed behind the wall joint.
> So Höfer might not have been that far off by
> associating those glyphs as being part of the
> "cartouche" which would make him essentially
> correct!
>
> Whacky fun.

Mr Catch-Up “knows better” again, on a purely speculative (and entirely spurious) basis. As usual.

M.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20-May-16 22:45 by Martin Stower.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Creighton Persists Part 2 4083 JonnyMcA 19-May-16 14:30
That chemical analysis . . . 650 Martin Stower 19-May-16 17:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 580 Origyptian 19-May-16 20:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 556 Jon Ellison 19-May-16 21:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 523 Martin Stower 19-May-16 22:01
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 517 Martin Stower 19-May-16 21:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 499 Origyptian 19-May-16 22:12
The unfounded accusations continue..... 608 DScribr 19-May-16 22:46
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 586 Martin Stower 20-May-16 00:14
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 509 Thanos5150 20-May-16 00:35
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 394 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 01:57
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 525 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:47
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 404 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 03:20
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 483 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:10
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 491 DScribr 20-May-16 23:23
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 506 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 23:35
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 487 DScribr 20-May-16 23:40
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 460 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:07
Re: The unfounded accusations continue..... 356 DScribr 20-May-16 02:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 512 Martin Stower 19-May-16 22:55
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 515 DScribr 19-May-16 22:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 494 Martin Stower 19-May-16 23:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 561 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:48
The lack of analysis . . . 611 DScribr 20-May-16 03:05
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 548 Audrey 20-May-16 04:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 464 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 06:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 499 DScribr 20-May-16 23:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 634 Origyptian 20-May-16 15:46
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 459 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 454 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 500 Martin Stower 21-May-16 02:07
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 485 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 06:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 502 Origyptian 21-May-16 14:58
So much for chemical analysis . . . 480 DScribr 21-May-16 19:54
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 485 Martin Stower 21-May-16 22:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 479 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:00
Re: What's the end game with this? 584 Thunderbird 20-May-16 17:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 480 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 463 Audrey 20-May-16 22:43
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 430 Martin Stower 20-May-16 22:54
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 469 Audrey 20-May-16 23:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 404 Martin Stower 20-May-16 23:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 478 Audrey 21-May-16 00:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 555 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:45
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 405 DScribr 21-May-16 01:35
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 365 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:06
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 438 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 514 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 631 Martin Stower 21-May-16 02:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 537 Martin Stower 20-May-16 18:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 555 Origyptian 20-May-16 20:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 453 Thanos5150 20-May-16 20:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 478 Origyptian 20-May-16 21:03
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 495 Martin Stower 20-May-16 23:44
Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 428 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:36
Re: Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 407 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:23
Re: Höfer and Görlitz meet Stein 617 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:55
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 467 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 491 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:15
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 420 Origyptian 21-May-16 04:08
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 494 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 574 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:09
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 439 Martin Stower 22-May-16 00:49
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 529 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:57
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 501 Origyptian 22-May-16 01:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 497 Jon Ellison 22-May-16 01:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 511 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:51
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 472 Origyptian 22-May-16 04:21
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 520 Martin Stower 22-May-16 14:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 484 Origyptian 22-May-16 17:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 518 Martin Stower 22-May-16 18:33
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 480 Origyptian 22-May-16 20:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 418 Martin Stower 22-May-16 21:30
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 511 Origyptian 22-May-16 23:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 527 Martin Stower 23-May-16 00:03
Re: That chemical analysis is all but forgotten...... 476 DScribr 23-May-16 03:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 513 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 08:47
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 484 Origyptian 21-May-16 13:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 445 Martin Stower 22-May-16 00:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 475 Origyptian 22-May-16 00:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 506 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:39
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 406 Origyptian 22-May-16 04:45
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 416 Martin Stower 22-May-16 16:13
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 411 Martin Stower 21-May-16 22:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 600 Origyptian 21-May-16 23:58
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 450 Martin Stower 22-May-16 01:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 700 Martin Stower 20-May-16 22:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 454 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:41
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 529 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:28
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 558 Origyptian 21-May-16 04:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 372 Martin Stower 21-May-16 23:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 520 Thanos5150 19-May-16 22:50
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 498 Martin Stower 19-May-16 23:18
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 415 DScribr 20-May-16 03:07
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 496 Origyptian 20-May-16 02:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 443 DScribr 20-May-16 03:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 516 Thanos5150 20-May-16 05:20
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 410 Origyptian 20-May-16 13:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 518 Thanos5150 20-May-16 17:57
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 522 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 18:56
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 499 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:23
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 571 Thanos5150 20-May-16 19:27
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 442 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 19:29
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 472 Audrey 20-May-16 21:02
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 485 Origyptian 20-May-16 21:12
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 476 Jon Ellison 20-May-16 21:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 533 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:08
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 521 Audrey 20-May-16 22:34
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 427 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:36
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 506 Audrey 20-May-16 22:47
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 414 Thanos5150 20-May-16 23:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 433 Audrey 20-May-16 23:11
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 416 Thanos5150 21-May-16 00:01
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 426 Audrey 21-May-16 00:23
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 480 Thanos5150 21-May-16 03:14
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 476 Audrey 21-May-16 05:02
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 410 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 09:10
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 553 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 09:28
The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 511 DScribr 21-May-16 13:37
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 426 Origyptian 21-May-16 13:56
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 474 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 17:48
Willful ignorance continues....... 505 DScribr 21-May-16 19:49
Re: Willful ignorance continues....... 527 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 21:28
Re: Stealing IS a crime! Willful ignorance continues....... 432 DScribr 22-May-16 00:39
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 507 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 18:17
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 395 DScribr 21-May-16 19:57
Re: The chemical analysis is of little help without R-C Dating 528 Richard Fusniak 21-May-16 20:24
Stealing IS A Crime!!! 508 DScribr 22-May-16 00:32
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 505 Origyptian 21-May-16 15:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 427 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 17:53
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 481 Origyptian 21-May-16 21:39
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 474 Jon Ellison 22-May-16 00:46
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 425 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:09
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 510 Audrey 21-May-16 00:26
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 518 Martin Stower 21-May-16 00:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 470 Audrey 21-May-16 01:04
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 535 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:41
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 500 Jon Ellison 21-May-16 11:00
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 458 DScribr 21-May-16 01:44
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 470 Origyptian 20-May-16 19:25
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 480 Thanos5150 20-May-16 19:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 431 Origyptian 20-May-16 20:35
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 498 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:03
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 425 Origyptian 20-May-16 22:38
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 508 Thanos5150 20-May-16 22:52
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 436 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 502 Martin Stower 21-May-16 01:05
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 443 Origyptian 21-May-16 01:27
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 464 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:31
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 441 Audrey 21-May-16 01:42
Re: That chemical analysis . . . 518 Martin Stower 21-May-16 03:34
Pending statement from Dr. Gorlitz 759 Richard Fusniak 20-May-16 12:04
Re: Pending statement from Dr. Gorlitz 529 Martin Stower 20-May-16 19:25
Martin Persists 579 drrayeye 23-May-16 01:30
Re: Martin Persists 545 Martin Stower 23-May-16 12:01
Re: Martin Persists 419 R Avry Wilson 24-May-16 19:58
Mainstream Persists 453 DScribr 25-May-16 00:56
Re: Martin Persists 633 Merrell 28-May-16 09:00
Re: Martin Persists 468 Martin Stower 28-May-16 11:11
as long as we are counting 560 Warwick 25-May-16 16:42
Re: as long as we are counting 528 DScribr 26-May-16 01:53
Re: as long as we are counting 563 cladking 26-May-16 16:57
Re: as long as we are counting 471 Martin Stower 26-May-16 17:31
Re: as long as we are counting 487 Origyptian 26-May-16 17:40
Re: as long as we are counting 406 cladking 27-May-16 00:21
Re: as long as we are counting 496 Warwick 27-May-16 01:27
Re: as long as we are counting 322 Origyptian 27-May-16 02:53
And work hard at obfuscation. 388 DScribr 27-May-16 00:57
Re: And work hard at obfuscation. 447 cladking 27-May-16 02:55
Re: as long as we are counting 418 Warwick 27-May-16 01:29
Re: as long as we are counting 528 cladking 27-May-16 02:59
Re: as long as we are counting 499 Warwick 27-May-16 03:35
Re: as long as we are counting 485 Audrey 27-May-16 04:32
Re: as long as we are counting 442 Warwick 27-May-16 05:34
Re: as long as we are counting 532 cladking 27-May-16 13:35
Re: as long as we are counting 491 Warwick 27-May-16 14:56
The original page on Indiegogo etc. 579 Martin Stower 25-May-16 22:10
Another performance . . . 471 Martin Stower 26-May-16 13:47
Re: Another performance . . . 427 Warwick 26-May-16 13:57
Re: Another performance . . . 369 Origyptian 26-May-16 14:53
Re: Another performance . . . 459 Martin Stower 26-May-16 16:09
Re: Another performance . . . 473 cladking 26-May-16 16:18
Re: Another performance . . . 380 Martin Stower 26-May-16 16:31
Re: Another performance . . . 640 cladking 26-May-16 17:54
Re: Another performance . . . 520 Martin Stower 26-May-16 18:29
Re: Another performance . . . 358 cladking 26-May-16 23:52
Re: Another performance . . . 497 eyeofhorus33 26-May-16 19:00
Re: Another performance . . . 398 cladking 27-May-16 00:05
Re: Another performance . . . 430 Audrey 27-May-16 00:23
Re: Another performance . . . 414 Warwick 27-May-16 01:42
Re: Another performance . . . 492 cladking 27-May-16 02:07
Re: Another performance . . . 438 Warwick 27-May-16 02:15
Re: Another performance . . . 473 cladking 27-May-16 02:48
Re: Another performance . . . 455 Warwick 27-May-16 03:48
Re: Another performance . . . 509 cladking 27-May-16 03:53
Re: Another performance . . . 545 Warwick 27-May-16 05:41
Re: Another performance . . . 433 Audrey 27-May-16 04:51
Re: Another performance . . . 470 Warwick 27-May-16 05:18
NOT Primitive, Low-Tech 433 DScribr 28-May-16 14:09
Re: NOT Primitive, Low-Tech 480 cladking 28-May-16 14:31
Re: Another performance . . . 508 Thanos5150 26-May-16 16:38
Re: Another performance . . . 399 cladking 26-May-16 16:44
Re: Another performance . . . 498 Origyptian 26-May-16 17:33
Re: Another performance . . . 516 cladking 26-May-16 17:40
Re: Another performance . . . 506 Martin Stower 26-May-16 17:49
Re: Another performance . . . 507 cladking 27-May-16 00:15
Re: Another performance . . . 500 Martin Stower 27-May-16 19:17
Re: Another performance . . . 514 Warwick 27-May-16 20:00
Re: Another performance . . . 451 cladking 27-May-16 20:21
Re: Another performance . . . 554 Martin Stower 27-May-16 23:06
Re: Oops....we missed the Basalt flooring and machine disc cuts 361 Thunderbird 27-May-16 23:28
Re: Oops....we missed the Basalt flooring and machine disc cuts 474 Martin Stower 27-May-16 23:41
Re: Another performance . . . 495 cladking 28-May-16 00:33
Re: Another performance . . . 483 Martin Stower 28-May-16 00:59
Re: Another performance . . . 479 cladking 28-May-16 02:36
Re: Another performance . . . 461 Martin Stower 28-May-16 23:55
Re: Another performance . . . 404 cladking 29-May-16 01:23
Re: Another performance . . . 437 Martin Stower 29-May-16 19:35
Re: Another performance . . . 605 cladking 29-May-16 20:43
Re: Another performance . . . 494 R Avry Wilson 28-May-16 02:39
Re: Another performance . . . 515 cladking 28-May-16 03:41
Re: Another performance . . . 459 Thanos5150 28-May-16 06:20
Re: Another performance . . . 538 cladking 28-May-16 13:40
Re: Another performance . . . 486 Origyptian 28-May-16 15:04
Re: Another performance . . . 484 Jon Ellison 28-May-16 16:38
Re: Another performance . . . 347 cladking 28-May-16 17:52
Re: Another performance . . . 447 Jon Ellison 28-May-16 17:58
Re: Another performance . . . 372 Origyptian 29-May-16 02:51
Re: Another performance . . . 397 cladking 29-May-16 03:08
Re: Another performance . . . 457 Origyptian 29-May-16 04:03
Re: Another performance . . . 474 Thanos5150 29-May-16 05:03
Re: Another performance . . . 505 Origyptian 29-May-16 13:18
Re: Another performance . . . 520 Thanos5150 29-May-16 15:03
Focus on the axiom 466 Origyptian 29-May-16 15:27
Re: Focus on everything BUT the facts 524 DScribr 29-May-16 15:41
Re: Focus on everything BUT the facts 420 cladking 29-May-16 17:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 406 Thanos5150 30-May-16 01:49
Re: Focus on the axiom 460 Origyptian 30-May-16 05:32
Re: Focus on the axiom 458 Thanos5150 31-May-16 02:35
Re: Focus on the axiom 487 Origyptian 31-May-16 06:41
Re: Focus on the axiom 486 Thanos5150 01-Jun-16 00:28
Re: Focus on reality. 449 DScribr 01-Jun-16 00:51
Re: Focus on the axiom 436 Origyptian 01-Jun-16 06:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 481 Thanos5150 02-Jun-16 03:08
Re: Focus on the axiom 453 cladking 02-Jun-16 04:00
Re: Focus on the axiom 405 Origyptian 02-Jun-16 04:25
Re: Focus on the axiom 418 Thanos5150 02-Jun-16 16:34
Re: Focus on the axiom 415 cladking 02-Jun-16 18:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 468 Origyptian 03-Jun-16 18:04
Re: Focus on the axiom 456 R Avry Wilson 03-Jun-16 18:43
Re: Focus on the axiom 437 Origyptian 03-Jun-16 21:24
Re: Focus on the axiom 447 Corpuscles 03-Jun-16 23:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 311 Origyptian 04-Jun-16 06:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 376 R Avry Wilson 04-Jun-16 00:12
Re: Focus on the axiom 366 Origyptian 04-Jun-16 07:02
Re: Focus on the axiom 494 Jon Ellison 04-Jun-16 10:18
Re: Focus on the axiom 432 R Avry Wilson 05-Jun-16 04:15
Re: Focus on the axiom 425 Martin Stower 03-Jun-16 22:28
Re: Focus on the axiom 441 cladking 03-Jun-16 22:51
Re: Focus on the axiom 560 Thanos5150 04-Jun-16 01:08
Re: Focus on the axiom 447 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 01:25
Re: Focus on the axiom 496 Thanos5150 05-Jun-16 04:15
Re: Focus on the axiom 453 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 17:29
Re: Focus on the axiom 490 Martin Stower 05-Jun-16 19:35
Re: Focus on the axiom 500 Origyptian 05-Jun-16 22:48
Re: Focus on the axiom 419 Martin Stower 05-Jun-16 23:47
Re: Focus on the axiom 453 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 00:54
Re: Focus on the axiom 413 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 01:01
Re: Focus on the axiom 454 Thanos5150 06-Jun-16 01:05
Re: Focus on the axiom 440 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 02:40
Re: Focus on the axiom 467 R Avry Wilson 06-Jun-16 03:39
Re: Focus on the axiom 382 Audrey 06-Jun-16 04:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 389 Jon Ellison 06-Jun-16 07:59
Re: Focus on the axiom 394 Origyptian 06-Jun-16 14:00
Re: Focus on the axiom 456 cladking 06-Jun-16 16:13
Re: Focus on the axiom 412 Corpuscles 07-Jun-16 00:20
Re: Focus on the axiom 455 Origyptian 07-Jun-16 02:55
Re: Focus on the axiom 400 Thanos5150 06-Jun-16 15:33
Re: Focus on the axiom 340 Warwick 06-Jun-16 16:17
Re: Focus on the axiom 473 Audrey 06-Jun-16 16:39
Re: Focus on the axiom 463 Warwick 06-Jun-16 16:58
Re: Focus on the axiom 367 Audrey 06-Jun-16 17:46
Re: Focus on the axiom 409 Warwick 06-Jun-16 18:13
Re: Focus on the axiom 351 Audrey 06-Jun-16 23:44
Read what I wrote 362 Warwick 07-Jun-16 17:15
Re: Read what I wrote 385 Audrey 08-Jun-16 00:22
Re: Read what I wrote 379 Martin Stower 08-Jun-16 01:40
Re: Read what I wrote 543 Audrey 08-Jun-16 01:52
Re: Read what I wrote 404 Martin Stower 08-Jun-16 13:47
Vyse's veracity.... 410 Warwick 09-Jun-16 16:29
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 331 Audrey 09-Jun-16 16:51
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 429 Warwick 09-Jun-16 17:19
Re: Vyse's veracity.... 469 Audrey 09-Jun-16 17:45
Wilkinson's opinions 392 Warwick 09-Jun-16 18:47
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 407 Origyptian 09-Jun-16 20:57
Ori's opinions 541 DScribr 10-Jun-16 01:45
Re: The incredible Teflon Red Ochre 387 Thunderbird 10-Jun-16 04:07
Re: The incredible Teflon Red Ochre 510 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 14:49
Re: The incredible Red Ochre lasted 4500 yrs. 426 DScribr 11-Jun-16 00:40
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 353 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 02:28
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 345 Audrey 10-Jun-16 03:05
Re: Wilkinson's opinions 473 Martin Stower 10-Jun-16 14:09
Bibliography 418 Warwick 10-Jun-16 18:07
Re: Bibliography 429 Origyptian 10-Jun-16 18:35
Re: Bibliography 412 Warwick 10-Jun-16 20:01
Re: Bibliography 461 Origyptian 10-Jun-16 21:54
Re: Bibliography 478 Corpuscles 10-Jun-16 23:45
Re: Bibliography 300 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 17:01
Re: Bibliography 426 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 22:36
Re: Bibliography 389 Audrey 11-Jun-16 23:08
Re: Bibliography 404 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 23:26
Re: Bibliography 328 Audrey 12-Jun-16 02:30
Re: Bibliography 374 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 03:19
Re: Bibliography 319 Audrey 12-Jun-16 03:32
Re: Bibliography 348 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 03:40
Re: Bibliography 353 Audrey 12-Jun-16 03:50
Re: Bibliography 332 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 04:30
Re: Bibliography 311 Audrey 12-Jun-16 04:47
Re: Bibliography 303 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 05:02
Re: Bibliography 438 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 10:49
Re: Bibliography 400 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 15:56
Re: Bibliography 329 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 17:41
But Avry.. 371 Warwick 12-Jun-16 17:58
Re: But Avry.. 455 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 18:14
Re: But Avry.. 420 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:37
Re: But Avry.. 414 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 20:15
Re: But Avry.. 420 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:44
Re: But Avry.. 382 Warwick 12-Jun-16 18:59
Re: But Avry.. 381 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 20:11
This whole discussion is a boondoggle 459 DScribr 13-Jun-16 01:04
Re: This whole discussion is a boondoggle 418 Warwick 13-Jun-16 16:24
Re: Bibliography 296 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 10:28
Re: Bibliography 385 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 23:35
Re: Bibliography 418 Corpuscles 11-Jun-16 23:58
Re: Bibliography 388 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 00:48
Re: Bibliography 426 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 01:13
Re: Bibliography 453 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 01:33
Re: Bibliography 473 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 02:05
Re: Bibliography 446 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 18:09
Re: Bibliography 431 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 19:22
Re: Bibliography 375 Origyptian 11-Jun-16 19:56
Re: Bibliography 302 Martin Stower 11-Jun-16 20:47
Re: Bibliography 418 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:03
Re: Bibliography 411 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 00:22
Re: Bibliography 310 Audrey 12-Jun-16 01:58
Re: Bibliography 448 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 02:24
Re: Bibliography 355 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 12:23
Re: Bibliography 376 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 14:50
Re: Bibliography 401 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 16:46
Re: Bibliography 319 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:10
Re: Bibliography 414 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:18
Re: Bibliography 400 Corpuscles 12-Jun-16 00:35
Re: Bibliography 448 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 00:39
Re: Bibliography 358 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 01:23
Re: Bibliography 361 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 02:18
Re: Bibliography 312 Martin Stower 12-Jun-16 13:55
Re: Bibliography 378 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 15:45
Re: Bibliography 418 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 17:32
Re: Bibliography 355 Warwick 12-Jun-16 17:41
Re: Bibliography 409 R Avry Wilson 12-Jun-16 18:08
Re: Bibliography 401 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:48
Re: Bibliography 394 Audrey 12-Jun-16 18:35
Re: Bibliography 346 Origyptian 12-Jun-16 19:09
Gonna ignore the noise and try again 392 Warwick 12-Jun-16 19:53
Re: Gonna ignore the noise and try again 399 Thunderbird 12-Jun-16 20:18
Re: Gonna ignore the noise and try again 365 Audrey 12-Jun-16 21:04
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