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cladking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

[. . .]

> The masons of that time usually made mastaba sides
> and other steep walls at 70 to 72 degrees for
> stability. I'm merely assuming the five 81' 3"
> steps of G1 which show up on the gravimtric scan
> are similar. If they could make them steeper they
> would have but the steeper they are the more
> fragile they are.

So, you’re assuming that the task was one of building a step pyramid—and that building a step pyramid was the entirety of the task, with nothing else needing explaining.

Would you now like to explain how the topmost stones of a true pyramid were raised, within the constraints of your “no ramps allowed” stipulation?

How the stones converting the posited stepped core into a true pyramid were raised?

> > If they were dragging things up a slope anyway,
> > then reducing that slope would be a natural
> > step to take.
>
> No. Not necessarily.
>
> Indeed, the shallower the slope the more
> inefficient it is because total friction
> increases. It is zero total friction at 90
> degrees and it is infinite at 0 degrees. It is
> very high at 8 degrees and extremely low at 70
> degrees.

And again, reducing friction to a minimum is not necessarily an overriding consideration, if the low-friction or no-friction solution is infeasible. There are the larger stones (roofing blocks, including the granite ones) to explain—and, again, all of the ones which are not part of the posited stepped core.

> If they had a perfect 70 degree side on the step
> that required no effort to build then why expend
> effort to make it less efficient? Ever consider a
> job in Congress?

Congress is not in my country.

> > You were there? I see nothing less which would
> > justify so plonking an assertion.
>
> Ramps are debunked and this can't be changed with
> semantics. [. . .]

> Again, semantics are irrelevant. [. . .]

> > And without semantics, your words amount to . . . ?
>
> I'm asking you to look beyond the words to the
> meaning, [. . .]

So much for coherence again.

> > Yeah, common sense, right.
>
> Common sense insists they used the simplest, least
> complicated, and most efficient means to lift
> stones as evidenced by the largest public works
> project in human history. This means ramps are
> illogical and fly in the face of common sense.

No, common sense insists that they did what was doable.

> > Seems to me that you’re doing what you
> > constantly accuse others of doing: treating the
> > ancient Egyptians as bumpkins, who did things
> > which make no sense.
>
> ?

It remains unclear to me (for one) that your proposal is other than impractical and impracticable.

> > What fools people are to make use of it,
> > then—and yet somehow they do, to make things
> > doable. Total amount of work is not always an
> > overriding consideration.
>
> When you get a new engine put in your car the cost
> of lifting it up is incidental.
>
> Lifting isn't incidental when you're using
> primitive technology in a primitive economy to
> lift 6 1/2 million tons to an average of 150'.

If proposing that stones were raised by essentially a straight lift, perhaps you would like to explain how they were secured, without any sign of lewises being used—and what was used to stop them scraping that nice, dressed Tura.

Also, it might help if you worked through your ideas (covering inter alia the points mentioned above) and presented them pictorially.

M.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Removable plugs on purpose 2642 Open mind 21-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 797 cladking 21-Nov-15 17:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 727 Open mind 21-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 615 cladking 21-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 826 Open mind 21-Nov-15 19:44
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 698 cladking 21-Nov-15 19:52
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 768 Open mind 21-Nov-15 20:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 637 cladking 21-Nov-15 21:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 715 Open mind 21-Nov-15 23:26
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 716 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 00:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 802 Corpuscles 22-Nov-15 11:32
Pragmatic Semantics 855 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 627 Open mind 22-Nov-15 17:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 662 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 714 Open mind 23-Nov-15 21:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 635 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 21:32
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 636 Open mind 23-Nov-15 22:27
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 669 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 581 cladking 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 661 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 618 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 745 Open mind 24-Nov-15 19:06
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 688 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 736 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 524 cladking 24-Nov-15 20:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 664 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:31
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 572 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 680 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 654 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:49
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 613 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:02
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 615 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 631 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 20:51
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 634 cladking 22-Nov-15 20:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 669 Origyptian 22-Nov-15 16:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 663 Open mind 22-Nov-15 18:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 714 Open mind 22-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 648 cladking 22-Nov-15 21:08
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 630 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 18:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 545 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 606 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 20:59
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 687 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:35
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 622 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 651 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 613 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 580 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 592 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:55
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 584 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 597 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 712 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 626 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-15 18:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 677 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 652 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 616 cladking 25-Nov-15 00:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 750 Martin Stower 27-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 522 cladking 28-Nov-15 00:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 648 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 00:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 586 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 679 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 02:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 586 cladking 28-Nov-15 02:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 766 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 13:40
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 612 cladking 28-Nov-15 15:16
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 709 Brian Patterson 28-Nov-15 15:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 576 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 20:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 594 Merrell 28-Nov-15 21:39
According to Archae... 594 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:09
Re: According to Archae... 594 Merrell 28-Nov-15 22:54
Re: According to Archae... 600 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:58
Re: According to Archae... 624 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:11
Mindset 641 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 23:36
Re: Mindset 631 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:49
Re: Mindset 616 Merrell 29-Nov-15 10:17
Re: Mindset 775 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Mindset 645 Merrell 29-Nov-15 22:49
Re: Mindset 470 cladking 29-Nov-15 23:03
Re: Mindset 641 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:47
Re: Mindset 570 cladking 30-Nov-15 05:07
Re: Mindset 598 Martin Stower 29-Nov-15 23:31
Re: Mindset 662 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 23:46
Re: According to Archae... 670 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 568 cladking 28-Nov-15 23:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 468 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:21
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 624 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 727 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 23:19
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 618 cladking 24-Nov-15 23:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 615 Martin Stower 25-Nov-15 00:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 733 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 00:42
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 671 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 01:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 639 Open mind 25-Nov-15 04:05
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 608 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 07:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 635 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 500 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:37
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 689 Open mind 25-Nov-15 03:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 724 Origyptian 25-Nov-15 03:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 709 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 16:25
Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 699 Howard West 29-Nov-15 16:48
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 663 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:57
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 532 Howard West 30-Nov-15 16:07
Old Posters seem to act like the Caliph Omar 645 Howard West 30-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 598 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 17:17
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 572 Howard West 30-Nov-15 18:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 543 cladking 30-Nov-15 21:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 589 Origyptian 01-Dec-15 04:56
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 666 Brian Patterson 01-Dec-15 17:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 617 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 21:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 593 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 22:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 658 Howard West 30-Nov-15 23:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 592 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 23:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 642 Howard West 01-Dec-15 02:34
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 713 Howard West 01-Dec-15 22:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 699 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 00:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 588 Brian Patterson 02-Dec-15 00:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 680 Howard West 02-Dec-15 03:46
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 618 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 21:04
some people just need lots of pictures 898 Howard West 03-Dec-15 02:12


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