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cladking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

[. . .]

> The masons of that time usually made mastaba sides
> and other steep walls at 70 to 72 degrees for
> stability. I'm merely assuming the five 81' 3"
> steps of G1 which show up on the gravimtric scan
> are similar. If they could make them steeper they
> would have but the steeper they are the more
> fragile they are.

So, you’re assuming that the task was one of building a step pyramid—and that building a step pyramid was the entirety of the task, with nothing else needing explaining.

Would you now like to explain how the topmost stones of a true pyramid were raised, within the constraints of your “no ramps allowed” stipulation?

How the stones converting the posited stepped core into a true pyramid were raised?

> > If they were dragging things up a slope anyway,
> > then reducing that slope would be a natural
> > step to take.
>
> No. Not necessarily.
>
> Indeed, the shallower the slope the more
> inefficient it is because total friction
> increases. It is zero total friction at 90
> degrees and it is infinite at 0 degrees. It is
> very high at 8 degrees and extremely low at 70
> degrees.

And again, reducing friction to a minimum is not necessarily an overriding consideration, if the low-friction or no-friction solution is infeasible. There are the larger stones (roofing blocks, including the granite ones) to explain—and, again, all of the ones which are not part of the posited stepped core.

> If they had a perfect 70 degree side on the step
> that required no effort to build then why expend
> effort to make it less efficient? Ever consider a
> job in Congress?

Congress is not in my country.

> > You were there? I see nothing less which would
> > justify so plonking an assertion.
>
> Ramps are debunked and this can't be changed with
> semantics. [. . .]

> Again, semantics are irrelevant. [. . .]

> > And without semantics, your words amount to . . . ?
>
> I'm asking you to look beyond the words to the
> meaning, [. . .]

So much for coherence again.

> > Yeah, common sense, right.
>
> Common sense insists they used the simplest, least
> complicated, and most efficient means to lift
> stones as evidenced by the largest public works
> project in human history. This means ramps are
> illogical and fly in the face of common sense.

No, common sense insists that they did what was doable.

> > Seems to me that you’re doing what you
> > constantly accuse others of doing: treating the
> > ancient Egyptians as bumpkins, who did things
> > which make no sense.
>
> ?

It remains unclear to me (for one) that your proposal is other than impractical and impracticable.

> > What fools people are to make use of it,
> > then—and yet somehow they do, to make things
> > doable. Total amount of work is not always an
> > overriding consideration.
>
> When you get a new engine put in your car the cost
> of lifting it up is incidental.
>
> Lifting isn't incidental when you're using
> primitive technology in a primitive economy to
> lift 6 1/2 million tons to an average of 150'.

If proposing that stones were raised by essentially a straight lift, perhaps you would like to explain how they were secured, without any sign of lewises being used—and what was used to stop them scraping that nice, dressed Tura.

Also, it might help if you worked through your ideas (covering inter alia the points mentioned above) and presented them pictorially.

M.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Removable plugs on purpose 2605 Open mind 21-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 788 cladking 21-Nov-15 17:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 715 Open mind 21-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 602 cladking 21-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 812 Open mind 21-Nov-15 19:44
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 684 cladking 21-Nov-15 19:52
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 753 Open mind 21-Nov-15 20:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 626 cladking 21-Nov-15 21:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 690 Open mind 21-Nov-15 23:26
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 704 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 00:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 793 Corpuscles 22-Nov-15 11:32
Pragmatic Semantics 845 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 606 Open mind 22-Nov-15 17:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 651 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 696 Open mind 23-Nov-15 21:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 627 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 21:32
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 621 Open mind 23-Nov-15 22:27
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 653 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 572 cladking 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 651 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 608 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 732 Open mind 24-Nov-15 19:06
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 671 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 713 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 513 cladking 24-Nov-15 20:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 652 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:31
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 542 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 671 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 639 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:49
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 605 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:02
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 603 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 622 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 20:51
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 622 cladking 22-Nov-15 20:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 656 Origyptian 22-Nov-15 16:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 651 Open mind 22-Nov-15 18:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 689 Open mind 22-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 639 cladking 22-Nov-15 21:08
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 617 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 18:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 535 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 599 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 20:59
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 675 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:35
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 608 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 633 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 585 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 571 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 583 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:55
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 575 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 590 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 699 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 617 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-15 18:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 667 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 644 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 607 cladking 25-Nov-15 00:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 730 Martin Stower 27-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 513 cladking 28-Nov-15 00:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 634 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 00:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 576 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 653 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 02:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 578 cladking 28-Nov-15 02:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 749 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 13:40
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 598 cladking 28-Nov-15 15:16
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 698 Brian Patterson 28-Nov-15 15:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 565 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 20:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 585 Merrell 28-Nov-15 21:39
According to Archae... 586 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:09
Re: According to Archae... 585 Merrell 28-Nov-15 22:54
Re: According to Archae... 591 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:58
Re: According to Archae... 614 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:11
Mindset 629 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 23:36
Re: Mindset 624 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:49
Re: Mindset 607 Merrell 29-Nov-15 10:17
Re: Mindset 757 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Mindset 638 Merrell 29-Nov-15 22:49
Re: Mindset 456 cladking 29-Nov-15 23:03
Re: Mindset 621 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:47
Re: Mindset 560 cladking 30-Nov-15 05:07
Re: Mindset 589 Martin Stower 29-Nov-15 23:31
Re: Mindset 652 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 23:46
Re: According to Archae... 655 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 559 cladking 28-Nov-15 23:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 458 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:21
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 614 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 716 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 23:19
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 606 cladking 24-Nov-15 23:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 607 Martin Stower 25-Nov-15 00:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 719 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 00:42
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 662 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 01:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 619 Open mind 25-Nov-15 04:05
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 599 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 07:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 620 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 488 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:37
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 677 Open mind 25-Nov-15 03:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 707 Origyptian 25-Nov-15 03:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 699 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 16:25
Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 692 Howard West 29-Nov-15 16:48
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 653 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:57
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 524 Howard West 30-Nov-15 16:07
Old Posters seem to act like the Caliph Omar 638 Howard West 30-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 588 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 17:17
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 561 Howard West 30-Nov-15 18:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 530 cladking 30-Nov-15 21:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 580 Origyptian 01-Dec-15 04:56
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 649 Brian Patterson 01-Dec-15 17:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 606 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 21:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 584 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 22:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 649 Howard West 30-Nov-15 23:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 584 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 23:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 633 Howard West 01-Dec-15 02:34
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 698 Howard West 01-Dec-15 22:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 691 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 00:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 580 Brian Patterson 02-Dec-15 00:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 669 Howard West 02-Dec-15 03:46
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 606 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 21:04
some people just need lots of pictures 879 Howard West 03-Dec-15 02:12


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