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cladking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

[. . .]

> The masons of that time usually made mastaba sides
> and other steep walls at 70 to 72 degrees for
> stability. I'm merely assuming the five 81' 3"
> steps of G1 which show up on the gravimtric scan
> are similar. If they could make them steeper they
> would have but the steeper they are the more
> fragile they are.

So, you’re assuming that the task was one of building a step pyramid—and that building a step pyramid was the entirety of the task, with nothing else needing explaining.

Would you now like to explain how the topmost stones of a true pyramid were raised, within the constraints of your “no ramps allowed” stipulation?

How the stones converting the posited stepped core into a true pyramid were raised?

> > If they were dragging things up a slope anyway,
> > then reducing that slope would be a natural
> > step to take.
>
> No. Not necessarily.
>
> Indeed, the shallower the slope the more
> inefficient it is because total friction
> increases. It is zero total friction at 90
> degrees and it is infinite at 0 degrees. It is
> very high at 8 degrees and extremely low at 70
> degrees.

And again, reducing friction to a minimum is not necessarily an overriding consideration, if the low-friction or no-friction solution is infeasible. There are the larger stones (roofing blocks, including the granite ones) to explain—and, again, all of the ones which are not part of the posited stepped core.

> If they had a perfect 70 degree side on the step
> that required no effort to build then why expend
> effort to make it less efficient? Ever consider a
> job in Congress?

Congress is not in my country.

> > You were there? I see nothing less which would
> > justify so plonking an assertion.
>
> Ramps are debunked and this can't be changed with
> semantics. [. . .]

> Again, semantics are irrelevant. [. . .]

> > And without semantics, your words amount to . . . ?
>
> I'm asking you to look beyond the words to the
> meaning, [. . .]

So much for coherence again.

> > Yeah, common sense, right.
>
> Common sense insists they used the simplest, least
> complicated, and most efficient means to lift
> stones as evidenced by the largest public works
> project in human history. This means ramps are
> illogical and fly in the face of common sense.

No, common sense insists that they did what was doable.

> > Seems to me that you’re doing what you
> > constantly accuse others of doing: treating the
> > ancient Egyptians as bumpkins, who did things
> > which make no sense.
>
> ?

It remains unclear to me (for one) that your proposal is other than impractical and impracticable.

> > What fools people are to make use of it,
> > then—and yet somehow they do, to make things
> > doable. Total amount of work is not always an
> > overriding consideration.
>
> When you get a new engine put in your car the cost
> of lifting it up is incidental.
>
> Lifting isn't incidental when you're using
> primitive technology in a primitive economy to
> lift 6 1/2 million tons to an average of 150'.

If proposing that stones were raised by essentially a straight lift, perhaps you would like to explain how they were secured, without any sign of lewises being used—and what was used to stop them scraping that nice, dressed Tura.

Also, it might help if you worked through your ideas (covering inter alia the points mentioned above) and presented them pictorially.

M.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Removable plugs on purpose 2543 Open mind 21-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 756 cladking 21-Nov-15 17:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 677 Open mind 21-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 566 cladking 21-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 786 Open mind 21-Nov-15 19:44
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 660 cladking 21-Nov-15 19:52
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 716 Open mind 21-Nov-15 20:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 583 cladking 21-Nov-15 21:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 655 Open mind 21-Nov-15 23:26
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 670 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 00:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 778 Corpuscles 22-Nov-15 11:32
Pragmatic Semantics 813 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 578 Open mind 22-Nov-15 17:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 637 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 660 Open mind 23-Nov-15 21:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 609 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 21:32
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 586 Open mind 23-Nov-15 22:27
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 625 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 556 cladking 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 636 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 579 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 678 Open mind 24-Nov-15 19:06
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 633 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 688 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 484 cladking 24-Nov-15 20:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 630 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:31
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 509 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 631 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 605 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:49
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 589 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:02
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 578 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 604 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 20:51
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 599 cladking 22-Nov-15 20:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 637 Origyptian 22-Nov-15 16:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 624 Open mind 22-Nov-15 18:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 651 Open mind 22-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 623 cladking 22-Nov-15 21:08
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 595 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 18:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 503 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 582 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 20:59
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 634 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:35
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 580 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 579 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 568 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 553 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 539 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:55
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 555 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 564 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 658 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 601 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-15 18:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 645 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 626 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 579 cladking 25-Nov-15 00:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 681 Martin Stower 27-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 497 cladking 28-Nov-15 00:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 618 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 00:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 560 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 634 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 02:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 557 cladking 28-Nov-15 02:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 716 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 13:40
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 561 cladking 28-Nov-15 15:16
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 657 Brian Patterson 28-Nov-15 15:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 550 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 20:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 567 Merrell 28-Nov-15 21:39
According to Archae... 559 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:09
Re: According to Archae... 569 Merrell 28-Nov-15 22:54
Re: According to Archae... 575 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:58
Re: According to Archae... 599 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:11
Mindset 603 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 23:36
Re: Mindset 608 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:49
Re: Mindset 575 Merrell 29-Nov-15 10:17
Re: Mindset 728 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Mindset 622 Merrell 29-Nov-15 22:49
Re: Mindset 419 cladking 29-Nov-15 23:03
Re: Mindset 603 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:47
Re: Mindset 543 cladking 30-Nov-15 05:07
Re: Mindset 573 Martin Stower 29-Nov-15 23:31
Re: Mindset 631 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 23:46
Re: According to Archae... 628 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 529 cladking 28-Nov-15 23:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 443 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:21
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 593 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 694 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 23:19
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 580 cladking 24-Nov-15 23:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 583 Martin Stower 25-Nov-15 00:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 688 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 00:42
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 619 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 01:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 596 Open mind 25-Nov-15 04:05
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 563 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 07:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 581 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 464 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:37
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 655 Open mind 25-Nov-15 03:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 680 Origyptian 25-Nov-15 03:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 674 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 16:25
Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 675 Howard West 29-Nov-15 16:48
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 632 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:57
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 487 Howard West 30-Nov-15 16:07
Old Posters seem to act like the Caliph Omar 592 Howard West 30-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 572 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 17:17
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 522 Howard West 30-Nov-15 18:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 513 cladking 30-Nov-15 21:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 550 Origyptian 01-Dec-15 04:56
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 625 Brian Patterson 01-Dec-15 17:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 591 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 21:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 569 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 22:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 618 Howard West 30-Nov-15 23:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 566 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 23:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 612 Howard West 01-Dec-15 02:34
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 675 Howard West 01-Dec-15 22:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 661 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 00:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 564 Brian Patterson 02-Dec-15 00:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 650 Howard West 02-Dec-15 03:46
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 585 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 21:04
some people just need lots of pictures 847 Howard West 03-Dec-15 02:12


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